nice tank !

Stevie T you are a life saver and star! Thank you

I made some rookie mistakes doing my first water change, and being an experienced FW fishkeeper, didn't quite realise just how much of a difference these things can make with a SW system. I bought the established tank off a friend who gave me some pointers, but I didn't listen enough it seems!

Reading this thread has answered all my questions!! I'm off to the LFS 2moro to get me a cheap heater and pump and some new buckets for my water changes. I wish I had read this first - I shocked my poor nano with a bad water change, not mixed properly and not warmed up enough. I tested my Nitrates and they had shot up over a couple days, so thinking I must do a water change to help, I went in head first and ended up probably doing more harm than good, shocked the life out of my Mushies!!

They are looking better today, and hopefully make a good recovery in the next day or two fingers crossed. The nitrates are still high So planning on a few smal water changes over the next few days - this should help right?

Thanks again, this thread has cheered me up this afternoon

you're welcome

Does it make much of a difference if you use a powerhead versus a pump? I'm just starting out, so I'd have to buying another pump or powerhead... most of the pumps I've seen are $150, but a nano powerhead would be like $30. Is it worth the extra $?

Pump and powerhead are loosely used terms. Every powerhead is a pump so yes you can use a powerhead, most do. I used the term pump because that is technically what it is and used for before I made it a water mixing device. You can get a powerhead or pump for $15-$30

A $150 pump is for a much larger system and would be overkill for a water mixing bucket.

stevie nice thread for newbie like me.. how to make or create a fuge with creato ... i have a 12 gal jbj nano i have in chamber 1 3 pcs. sponges chamber 2 ceramic ring bioballs and carbon chamber 3 heatr was is your reccomendation ..thanks i just bought this to a friend friend for my little boy he like nemo. its been 2 weeks i try to changed the water and still look bad a lot of flying things.. i need a lot of info how to take care /maintain the tank and the fish.very appreciated .thanks

Remove the sponge and the bioballs, both lead to nitrates.

I think its helpful to add a surface area=nitrate explanation to this thread which is a very awesome thread indeed~

Once you have enough surface area to perform nitrogenous waste oxidation, any extra you add, regardless of its form 99% of the time will produce nitrate in a nano reef, extra surface area can be a -hassle- not always a help, here's why.

You need enough surface area to oxidize the ammonia yields from your fish and from respiration by every living thing in your reef display, and a little bit of live rock and sand will do just that with nothing else (after being cycled)
Extra surface area in any form, any form, traps detritus, which upon breakdown yields further nitrate. You can have triple the normal loading of bioballs in a tank, and as long as they are kept clean and free of brown and green detritus flocs they will not produce nitrate as detritus breakdown sites. I like the idea of using chemsorb or binding pads to take up phos and nitrate, to me that's an excellent use of space

When you have x amount of ammonia being introduced into a system, x amount of nitrate will follow, and there is a finite amount of surface area in between these two which is all that's needed. We get -more- endpoint nitrate in our nano reefs than variable 'x' in ammonia because of the detritus we produce and store. To me, nitrate battling is always about detritus, nothing else.

Under gravel filters-big nitrate pumps, but not if you can clean the undersides of the substrate of detritus, then they are just like any other type of surface area exchange. Nothing actually causes nitrate unless it involves a protein, in our systems. major major rule to keep in mind is that...to find out how something is a nitrate pump, find out what it does with protein. detritus and brown junk and algal biofilms and flocs, all the stuff in any surface area within our tank, is chock full of protein.


Many people choose to use canister filters, also nitrate pumps, because they can remove suspended items from the water making it look cleaner (which may or may not help reef organisms that thrive on marine snow) so I don't want to say any method is bad, Id just like to show how all of this work has never made a 0 nitrate nano reef I've seen in ten years of reefing. canister filters on the other hand are not nitrate pumps when kept incredibly clean

Its commonly said to ditch the bioballs and use live rock chips instead, this is likely a worse cause of nitrate production (relative to your cleaning habits) because the live rock surfaces and pits hold even more detritus than round and hard bioballs, for the same regimen of cleaning!!

A refugium can also produce heavy nitrate in the nano reef, owing to the percentages we commonly allow for a refugium (80% production area within our tank, 10-20% refugium binding area is poor ratio for our stocking levels for example). The simple verification of this is go find someone with a nanocube who is running the refugium portion and has a normal fish load inside, and ask them if they register 0 nitrates after two weeks running and no water change. It may very well be possible with thorough cleaning, skimming and heavy macroalgae growth I've just never seen nor heard of it in a nano reef. Usually the refugiums in nano reefs aren't cleaned of detritus any moreso than bioballs or live rock rubble, so the same happens. The amount of nitrogen fixation within slow growing chaetomorpha is negligible, not enough to render every nano tank Ive ever seen with 0 nitrates although its a really neat zone for plant growth, -some N fixation-, and for production of foodstuffs to the outside tank area. I have never seen natural stocking levels in a nano reef, the live sand deep sand bed or heavy live rock use, accomplish an oxygen gradient zone where NO3 is cleaved and liberated as N gas (the DSB method of nitrate removal)-it just doesn't happen in nano reefs that I've seen over the years.


Water changes are indeed a nano keepers best friend and I don't want to say any of the methods are wrong (floss, bioballs, rock rubble, refugiums) I just wanted to say that removing detritus makes pretty much every filtration scheme the same, in the end. All else is just trend, so get out the test kits for nitrate and take your readings only from that. In most cases, the best approach is to -empty- out those back chambers and leave them free of extra surface area, this can do A LOT for your tank if you plan on keeping it with low cleaning hassle. The adsorbent pads will remove pollutants but a setback with them is cost, when natural means (water changes and cleaning of surface area) are free and equal. You'd have to stock and feed an inordinant amount of life in order to exceed the oxidation abilities of regular front-display rocks and sand, so ask yourself--

if Im not registering ammonia on my test kits, and nothing I change on my system will make it nitrate free (lessening my water change work) what am I trying to achieve with all these filtration modifications?
B

this is perfect for this thread.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

Is RO water required for making your own salt water? Silly question .. I know.

In short yes, that or distilled. Tap water leads to many nasty things including algae.

Dumb question, but I'm replacing 3 gallons a week. I'm using two 5 gallon buckets. Does anyone mark the gallons on the bucket or do you just guess each time? I kinda wanted it to be exact so I take out exactly what I put in. Also, it would be nice to clearly see when to stop when siphoning out. I tried to kinda mark the 3 gallon area with a knife but it doesn't show up worth a ####.

Could you use a permanent marker or would that be dangerous leaching crap into the water?

I mark the outside of the bucket. I use a flash light and shine it on the line. That way I can see where the water is at.

I used a sharpie on the inside. No problems

If you had some krylon spray paint you could use that to mark as well.

Nice but it is not rocket science.

I am a rocket scientist.

Thank you for your valued condescension.

StevieT.

Thank you!

my 28G been up and running for a while now Thought it was about time to swap some water out, I'd been told to wait but no idea how long. I've finally got 0's across the board on my Test and have introduced two little clowns a week ago.

I've been waiting for my RO/DI unit so ran to the shop and picked up 10.5lts of Distilled water. I think someone before pointed out being competent with FW does not mean you know what's going on with FW, so before I dived in I re-read your post to check all details. I also read on a local forum no need to heat water in Singapore as it gets up to temp during mixing and airing process.

Worked a charm, done the math with salt and my Pinpoint registered 48.5 and I keep my tank at 48.6, All in my Blue bucket (blue for Sea = Good) emptied 10.5 ltr's (marked level in my Red bucket) using a simple syphon, then dropped my Chiller pick up tube in blue bucket and filled her back up.

4hrs later salt steady at 48.5, PH moved from 8.16 > 8.20, Temp consent at 27. Water crystal

Will run all my test day after tomorrow to check i not messed anything up.

Thanks a Lot

YB

Sounds like you have a great system for doing water changes. Glad the thread helped.

I would have never guessed krylon is okay for a reef until it was posted here on nr several times, cool what you guys discover thats helpful in a new pico build Ive started

I have a question Steve so to make my own saltwater I should use RO/DI FRESHWATER right???? Thanks

Yeah, you add salt to the fresh RO/DI to make well saltwater

is 5 gal wc's every 4 days too often for a bc29? trying to keep my calcium up, seems to drop to 300-320 by the 4th day? the other water parameters are good. should i use a supplement instead?

You can't have too much water changes, but sometimes it is less expensive to use supplements.

What is you water change water's calcium level? Do you have many stony corals or other reasons for the calcium usage?

ok... so.... i just tested my 5 gals of "ready to go" wc water and it reads 320. i use IO salt.

retested the tank and its 320 as well.

edit: i have some candy cane and sun coral (far as stonys go)

if i were you i would switch to a diffrent salt that has a higher calcium level or you could just suppliment it your choice.

any salt recommendations? lucky me ... i just ran out too

um you could try d and d i heard that it has alot of good levels since it is a synthetic salt. but ask around all salts have there ups and downs you just have to figure out which one you like the most.

Use reef crystals or other high calcium/alkalinity salt mixes. Instant ocean is probably closer to natural seawater values, but calcium/alkalinity get used up in tanks faster than the other elements. These salt mixes usually have "reef" in their name or other indicator. It is important to test how your calcium levels are changing even in the low range because it seems like not much is being used up if it is going from 320 to 300 (or 320) ppm.

OR....
...buy some SW from ur LFS a few days in advance and let it come to room temp. ( unless you keep ur pad at less than 75/73 degrees)
Pump the old out of ur sump and the new in....nice and slow....

finished!

I have been doin' it that ways for about 15 years or more without problems....

With regards to using windex to clean the outside of the tank, remember windex has chemicals which are very bad for our aquatic friends. A single spritz on the cloth sprayed away from the aquarium will go a long way towards protecting your investment.

Great Post...AGAIN

Ps You Guys Are To Funny. Didnt Know This Was A Comedy Thread But Just Go With It!!

We have a 29gal biocube. When my hubby does a water change, he siphons out the old and puts the new water in at the same time. Our nitrates are high, and though we had been over feeding a bit, I wondered if the water change style could also be contributing to the problem. Thank you!!

It is probably more about feeding and your filtration methods. But, changing water like that is silly IMO. You would literally be sucking out some of the new water with the old.

Describe what is in the rear chambers.

We have the bioballs in, and we keep a poly filter over the drip tray that rests above bioballs. We have a carbon filter that comes with the biocube, and also the biocube skimmer. We have about 30-50lbs of live rock, and about 2-3 inch live sand bed. It's our first tank, and we've had it up and running since July of 2009. I've read a lot about the bioballs causing high nitrates, and it makes sense why, but in all this time our nitrates have always been 0. We looked in, just to make sure they weren't nasty, and they are clean with no visible debris. We recently got a sun coral, and a clown goby who was tough to get eating at first. The only other fish is our maroon clown, who was not getting fed everyday. We were feeding phytoplex to the corals about once a week. The clown goby will only eat frozen brine, and we're feeding mysis to the sun coral. We were doing this daily until the nitrates, which were up to 80. They are now between 20-40, I'm guessing because we have slowed way down on the feeding, (every other day maybe) but the sun coral is not doing well. Maybe a sun coral in our small tank wasn't a great idea? I'm just not sure how we can find a balance to keep him fed. Thanks for your advice

Bioballs, stock biocube skimmer, stock biocube filtration media all bad
Suncoral in that size thank is not a good idea either. Requires daily feeding I would remove
Maroon clown, way too big of a fish for that size tank

take into consideration an option from one of the posters in our pico forum...external feeding of the suncoral. you can take it out of the main tank twice a week and feed it in a separate dish of saltwater. after a few rounds it will train up to open the polyps upon the first scent of the meat. then set it back in the reef display after an hour. it may be a hassle, but with nitrates that high the tank will crash because of algae as soon as some gets a foothold so at least this is an alternative.

Excuse my newb question, but I have a Jager heater that I plan to use when I do my water change. Is it OK to unplug it & remove it right away from the mixing bucket before pouring the water out or should I unplug it & give it a few to cool down before removing? I ask because I don't feel like having my heater explode.

it wont explode like that. Youd have to leave it plugged in, and out of water for a while before the heat would crack it. Almost all the heater cracks result from refilling, with cool water on hot glass. That being said, I haven't ever heard of a heater cracking or popping in all the time Ive been into tanks, since about 89.

Im sure hundreds of people have had it happen, just noone I knew personally for over 20 years, its that rare. and I too made the mistakes of filling up a tank with cool water while the old hagen HOB heater stayed plugged in, I think its not really a risk for you with today's setups.

in 3 seconds someone will chime in how their heater popped last nite good ole web

You can do as you describe. They do not get that hot and like above would need a huge temp shock to cause that. I do what you plan every time.

brandon429 & StevieT

Thank you for your reply's!

The only thing i see wrong with this post is you not using natural salt water from the sea or is that just a Florida thing?...lol...

Yelp, i"m bringing back and old thread, but I wanted to ask how long you let your saltwater mix before doing your water change. Once the temp and salinity is where you want it, do you go ahead and change it? I have heard many people say you have to wait 24 hours to mix everything, but I've heard many others say once it's all set, you are good to go...curious what you think.

I wait about a day, sometimes longer if I get busy. I have done it sooner but you want to match temp, salinity and PH. PH is usually what takes the longest.

How can you make sure you match or raise your Ph through a waterchange? I read something about how aerating your WC water a day before WC helps, but I am unsure of the proper way of aerating. Any help?

I was wondering the same thing. As long as the alk, salt, and temp were the same. And the tank ph was good, how vital would it be for the new water to be at "proper" ph..?

I know it would always be best to have everything match, but I'm not sure how to get the new water to march perfectly without adding something.

Yep, aeration. I use an old skimmer pump for mixing so I open the air valve after the water is to temp. Just test your new water before a change and see if it is needed.




You don't have to be exact, just close. If you PH is 8.3 then 8.0 water isn't going to do much, it is a small amount from the overall volume of the tank.

love it. thanks!

Very informative, thanks! I just put a water changing kit together, put two extra heaters, a MaxiJet 1200, and a thermometer in a new bucket, with a dedicated power strip. Suction cupped everything to keep it in place and put some tubing on the pump so I don't have to pour anything (I HATE chasing splashed droplets around with a rag to prevent spots, a little OCD like that). I let it run with tap water just to work any kinks out, will use it for an actual water change on Thursday.