yes you did:





show me where i said that adding a name automatically increases price. i merely said it could influence it - and you just admitted that point (and negated your original point above).




Commonality has nothing to do with their price drop - they've been commonly available since before I entered the hobby. The reason they're cheaper now is because they've lost their hype.



the name simply has to do with the color morph of the coral. watermelon zoas for example - whats the lineage? they've got a name...but i see wild colonies that are undoubtedly watermelon zoas all the time. the problem i have is when people do try to associate a name and lineage (again, as if only ONE person in the world got this particular coral morph and it all spread from there). the tangible benefit of lineage - aquaculture - is fine with me, as well as a small price increase from knowing it was aquacultured (not because it was in tyree's tank). it's the part where people start complaining about "you can't call that a........because it doesn't have lineage from........" that i have an issue with.



Tyree could put his name on a brown zoanthid and the market would go nuts based solely on his name. He's gotten pretty close before. The Tyree blue chalice still goes for more than ORA's blue chalice- and they're the same coral. Why? because Tyree naming something = hype.



Hype outdoes availability in most cases. 6 years ago, i could get a blue chalice colony for $50. When I bought my original mini carpets, they were $10. Now, one frag of a blue chalice is $50, and mini carpets go for $40 on Fraggle Reef, $100 on Atlantis. Naming is just one step of many in hyping up a coral - how, exactly, would you have known about them if they hadn't been named?

Ok guys, just whip them out and measure.



+1



Exactly! The only thing I like about the registry's idea is that something strange or unique can have a name put to it, like MJ's Radioactive Gooberz!


Oh, and I found a new source of Reef Funds. A lawyer who knows the group I work with needs a local guy familiar with the law and with the system. In return for me being that guy, I got paid $30/hour. It's only a few hours here and there, but it looks like it's going to be an on going deal. I did almost two hours today, and as I was walking back to my office afterwards, I thought to myself "Huh, that just paid for a Kole Tang!"

Since you want to split hairs, I've copied the quote and bolded two parts. My meaning here, which you confirm, is that the specific name of the coral has no bearing on price (emphasis on the "what"). I did not say that the coral having a name in general has no bearing on price. I did say that scarcity will boost price regardless of name or no name. Perhaps you can accuse me of misunderstanding Richie and Henry, and posting a convoluted sentence, but your prior criticism is invalid. I wrote this on the fly at work so I wasn't concerned with laying out a clairvoyant paragraph.



more splitting hairs. we agree on this point.



i'm guessing you can't really prove this. neither can i disprove it. however, i'm unclear as to what you define as "hype" and how it drives up price? See my further thoughts at the end.



so what if Tyree says that the watermelon zoas he bought are now Tyree watermelon zoas? If they are so readily available as you say, Tyree bull####ting about his zoas won't affect the price of the other watermelon zoas on the market. some purist fanboy will probably pay a premium to say he has a tyree piece, but how does that affect you? and my response to anyone telling me what i can and can't call something is GFY. anyone can call anything what they want, as long as they aren't lying (meaning, i can't say this is a tyree wm zoa if it's not actually from that line. but i can say it's a watermelon zoa or call it a DHaut's Watermelon Zoa or whatever). none of that means that readily available corals will have a price impact. rare corals are a different matter.



of course tyree's name means something for some people (which i admitted), but I'd hardly say for the entire market. and since neither of us have accurate sales reports for ORA vs. Tyree chalices, we can't prove which the market actually prefers. ORA could outsell Tyree 10:1 due to the price differential. And hobbyists could sell 20:1 on ORA at cheaper prices. But we don't have data. As to brown zoas, yeah maybe a tyree brown zoa would be more expensive, but who cares? i'll just buy a regular one because i love dooky colored corals in my tank.



Not sure what you're getting at here. Seems like "hype" is just a spike in demand due to realized scarcity. If everyone had a blue chalice, the price would be at zero because there would be no demand. Obviously in the past couple years more people have discovered that blue chalices exist and want a piece for whatever reason, and so demand has been driven up past supply, raising price. Like you said, there are too many causes for demand spikes to blame it on one particular thing, like Tyree coming out with a blue chalice.

Tyree and ORA blue chalices are 50 a frag......Okay Go! *ding ding ding

...me and my big mouth.

umm? you just stated the same thing i did, but added a gfy.

of course, the other obvious problem with lineage: prove it. prove your coral is from that same famous person. you can't. and therein lies the biggest issue - by default it raises the price of the "non-tyree watermelon zoas" because half the people out there are going to tell you that it's the tyree version because that now costs more than their "normal" versions...

lest we forget that they're EXACTLY the same coral <--this is simply my "people are idiots" statement.



Change "realized" in your first sentence here to "perceived" and I'm okay with the sentence. I would argue that often in this hobby, a perceived spike in demand (such as tyree name, etc) or a perceived scarcity (new fad corals) where there is not, in truth, any change drives prices up. No doubt the people who put much stock into lineage, etc. are a minority but, IMO, they have a marked difference on prices. Imagine trying to get PPEs (with or without lineage/name) for a $3/polyp. They're really not much different (and certainly no more rare) than many of the other $3/polyp PE types. In fact, you should read the history of PPEs if you want to see what a few silly hobbyists can manage to do with good marketing and false perceptions of availability.



O Richie...the 2 DH's around here like each other. We just like to write paragraphs in semi-rebuttal of each other (not really arguing, since we generally agree in roundabout ways). Need some kinda entertainment when the wife is driving home, and I'm sure I'd be accused of being mean somehow if I posted outside of WL

Oh for heaven's sake, would you guys take a Chill Pill alrdy???
You're making my head hurt.
Can we get back to goofing off now???

this is totally how I goof off

aight drnshaw, imma let you slide this time. only because i'm way too tired to keep rebutting and weetie blew the whistle, lol.

me too *shrugs*



i think we ran outta rebutting anyway. we were 2 posts away from agreeing with each other




at least i didn't get fussed at for being mean

You haven't run out of rebutting.


This is how you rebut:

Some recent fun pics from my WebCam:

Kap'n Krunch and I in our local hangout/coffeeshop





Hubby

Clowning with the Boys in the Office

I vill suck your blooood!

yikes!

I loled

Sry to have scared you with our wackiness------ NOT!

SIKE!

dang, when did I hit 9k posts? lol

You need to do work son.

I need to make RODI for a WC.

There you go! That's what I'll be doing today too. Part for a WC and part for the 75.

now that my mighty mite is putting our 150gpd, it's so easy to do changes.

Just don't flood the bucket! That's why I got the trash can. Way too many flooded 5g buckets.

been there. flooded the landlords kitchen 3 floors down. it was bad.

I was banned from the kitchen the other day. I left the RO/DI on overnight and flooded the kitchen. Now I have it hooked up under the bathrooms sink and fill my buckets in the tub. Idiot proof.

LOL we do something similar we have a huge industrial sink in the basement where our unit is set up so we put the bucket in our sink so we don't flood our basement anymore.

And goodness gracious at what happens when I leave work to come home. Geesh guys you remind me of when I was in highschool. A girl and I used to argue in chemistry only to realize we were arguing the same side of the argument just in different terms.

lol, just flooded the basement with ours. apparently, flow is enough to splatter out over the sink.

luckily, clean up simply involves walking back upstairs and waiting

Zomg, great pictures, L.

Speaking of RODI, what should I use to clean this new brute trashcan I just picked up for making RODI? Should I soak a rag in some vinegar, give it a wash, and then rinse with tap water?

Sounds good to me.



And also, 400 pgs, YAAAY!!!!

Great! Looks like that's what I'll be doing after dinner.

imma go see alice in wonderland

Oh boy, $36.95 for the shipping of one polyp of PH? Maybe we should clue those guys into SYA. I saw a post about being able to buy other corals from the guys shipping, but I didn't see a link of available corals/prices. Did I miss something?

Yeah, I'm trying to decide whether I want to pay that or not.

On one hand, it's supposed to be a coral that's very pricey. On the other hand, me coming out ahead would mean that I'd have to hope that the coral makes it through shipping, acclimating, and adjusting to the tank. Then, it has to grow to the point where I can frag it, and find a buyer.

Or...... wait, I have an idea. What if we use this opportunity for the idea of a WL coral bank? They said shipping could be combined. We pick one (or two, or three, whatever) people to have WL member's PH polyps sent to. Then, over the next few swaps, that person (or someone else who can share the love) distributes the polyps to the WL members.

Crazy idea, but it might be an alternative to paying $37 to get a single polyp.

$37 seems about right for overnight +supplies. PM minirex and ask if he has other stuff for sale to make shipping worth it.

Well, I don't mean to imply that somehow they are ripping us off. I don't doubt that $37 is a good figure for their cost to ship. For me, the issue is my paying $37 to get one polyp.

Hey Weetie whats the name of the retail store front for Sustainable Aquatics?

Weetie, YGPM

The Coral Reef.
It's on Kingston Pike in Knoxville.



Backatcha.

Alice was alright - visuals and acting were great, but the plot was meh. Oh well.

Thanks Weetie we might try to stop in on our way home. Any other place you would recommend that is close to 75?


So Alice isn't worth it huh? I think the potential was there with Burton as the director but since Disney was backing it it couldn't have the full potential it deserved gotta keep it pg for the kids.

Weets those webcam pics are awesome!

yeah, carroll's world isn't what I would call conducive to dramatizing. most reviews that I read after seeing it echoed my feeling that the movie just felt empty. not enough character development was a major flaw. either you make the movie utterly nonsensical or you make it epic. to try to walk the line usually ends up just being empty.

in other news:


SPRING FORWARD TONIGHT!

Glad you said something.... I forgot.

Dominos sucks that is all.

lets not, and just say we did