There's a tank.
At the moment it's a 20L, but it will soon be a 30g with a 29g sump. Still working on that.
The 36" T5HO retro is on the way from ReefGeek right now and is supposed to be here Tuesday.
I don't often post pics of the tank as it is now cause it's not all that spiffy looking.
I haven't made any attempts at an aquascape cause I know it's temporary, and some of the frags are sitting on a frag smack in the middle of the tank.
Until I get the permanent upgrade system up, I prefer to stick to Macro pics of frags in the system.

And speaking of that, here's a couple of new arrivals, fresh from BibleSue's Prop Tank-

WAT TANK?

lol

Storm is messin' with mah internetz, so I'm gonna be in and out for a while.

Nice new stuff, Weets.

It's cool Richie.

The question of why evil exists and why bad things happen to good people is one of the philosophical questions I am most comfortable answering... Of course Sue already hit it.

The question, that appears to have been tabled for now, is how science and faith should interact.

It seems to me that science should provide the hows and faith should provide the whys. When you look to either one to produce what the other does, you will run into problems.

That's an interesting perspective Fosi.
I apologize for not contributing more to that particular discussion.
I've been having some major problems with fatigue lately, and my brain doesn't function on that high of a level when I'm feeling like that.
I've been enjoying everyone's input from the sidelines tho.

How do the two interact within yourself?
That is to say do you find it difficult to be both a man of science and of strong faith?
I mean, just the question of- did that evolve or was is put here must drive you nutz, no?
I suppose you really answered your thoughts on that in your previous post but I am curious to know how you reconcile the two.

In the way I mentioned above. The physical world is the one that science is capable of working in but science can say very little about ethics and nothing about purpose.

For example: It is nice to think of the blooming of flowers in the spring as the work of God and it is, but it is not the mystery that it used to be. It would be somewhat foolish, don't you think, to do on insisting that we do not and cannot understand this aspect of plant development.

Plant biologists are able to describe the process of flower development, right down to what hormones are produced where and what receptors they interact with. They can manipulate plant genomes to remove or alter the genes that code for these hormones and/or receptors and fundamentally change the way that plants work.

Now does this take ground away from God? God used to open the flowers, right? Wrong! He created the universe, he defined the laws that allow life to exist so he did create plants and thus he is responsible for their blooming. Why should this change the nature or the greatness of God?

Does he open each of them individually? Maybe, but science can't test that hypothesis. What science can offer is repeatable, manipulatable and predictable results that indicate that biochemical machinery is directly responsible for it.

Plant scientists can tell you how it happens, but they can't say why. Oh, they might come up with evolutionary arguments for it but that isn't really answering why, it is just punting the question further into the past.

Why should things exist?



I don't know that I would call it difficult but it isn't something that just happens, at least not in biology. The developments of "naturalism", biology and geology over the last 180 years have begun to explore the details what in our cells makes us what we are. This inevitably mixes with our innate desire to know why we are here...

For most of our history, we have been in the dark about the simple question of how we are here or how we might have gotten here. Now that we have some physical evidence that points to physical, not just mythical or spiritual, mechanisms by which we have become what we are, we turn with an even stronger desire to the question of why we are here. Not just as a species, but individually. We all feel as though there is purpose to our lives.

As C.S. Lewis put it, just because you feel like eating a cheeseburger doesn't mean you're going to get one but doesn't that feeling strongly imply that hunger is a real thing even though it is nebulous? So then, does not the (nearly) universal feeling that there is a higher power or that there is more to the universe than just we can see strongly implies that such a thing exists? Of course we haven't discussed what form such a "power" might take but that fits less into the discussion of science/faith and more into theology.

And thus, science educates faith with the hows that have thus far been difficult or impossible to understand and faith provides the framework on which to hang the hows. Without some understanding of why things are here, about why there is a universe rather than a void, the hows mean nothing.

Wow! My right brain is reeling! Well said!

I sat on my deck this morning looking at the mist on the pond just amazed at the beauty bursting forth in the Spring. You have discussed it well Mr. F



Then I got a shot of this guy & remembered the red winged black bird that I saw last week. How do they know to come back to my pond every spring to build their nests? There is so much built into animals that we can scratch the surface with science but there are many unanswered questions. We can make educated guesses at best.

Interesting.

Not sure I can grasp all of that Isaac, although suddenly I crave a cheeseburger.

I suppose its not all that large a conflict as I would have first thought. Simply trying to figure out how "he" put things together, form and function- how it all works and fits together.


Thanks for sharing, interesting indeed.

Nice PDs

There's more where those came from if you don't have any. I had another cluster I fragged up yesterday cuz they were growing over the edge & under the disk.

Sounds good. I have been eying them on Ebay Let me know when they are ready and we can make some arrangements

Just give them a few days to heal. You don't live that far away.

Very interesting thread. Sorry if this popped up, I browse infrequently as two kids, work and having a very active local reef club now has taken up time, but Sue and Mr. F, have either/both of you read Fearfully and Wonderfully Made by Dr. Paul Brand and Philip Yancey? Needrefunds, this book really is something to experience, when looking at science and christianity walking hand in hand.

Regarding the PDs, was that one frag or a couple of frags? Mine seem to grow pretty close together and was just curious as those seem to grow farther apart.

I've not seen that one but I'll look it up.

Well BibleSue is the one that fragged it, so hopefully she'll chime in on this.
I had thought that this was just one frag, but you're right that they usually grow closer together.
Even her other PD's in her tank are growing much closer together, so I dunno.



You do?
I mean thanks and all, but I actually don't think it's anything special in that regard.
Everything is just thrown in there cause it's just a temp tank.
I'm gonna try to do some spiffy 'scape stuff once I actually get the upgrade tank going.



I don't blame you for not reading all of it, this got to be in at least the top 5 of the longest threads on NR!
Glad you liked the corals.
Honestly, a lot of them have come from good friends or just very generous NR'ers.
Some are from trades, some from Frag Swaps.
I don't often buy anything outright anymore!
I'm hoping once I get the new system off the ground I'll see some really good growth on some of those beauties.

JANIE!!!!
It's so nice to hear your voice here, even if it's just a small installment.
Yeah, I was overfeeding to keep him happy too, and developed tank issues as a result.
Oh well, guess I just need to try to stick to fish that are super-easy.
On another note, been thinking bout trying to get involved in the E. Tn. Reef Club lately. It's just hard to make it to the meetings cause I can't get childcare for the lil Terrors.

Got a chuckle outta this.
My first encounter with Weetabix was in a book called The Last Coin.
There's a really hilarious scene in it involving smuggling Weetabix across the Canadian border into the U.S.
Like you, I had no idea it was a real cereal til I ran across it by accident in the grocery store one day.
Even though it's one of those healthy fiber-type cereals (shudder) I actually quite like it.

As for the interesting social networking format, you have no idea.
You're just seeing the tip of the iceberg here!
I really enjoy and appreciate my Weetie's Lounge family though, and I've never even made it to Facebook!

Thanks for stopping by yardboy.
If it'll make you feel better, "Quick Grits" can be your WL nickname.

my 2 cents. I feel that most people believe in some form of a high power. Doesnt have to be the "God". My inlaws are Buddists,however they gave my wife and her sister the choice to decide what faith to choose.

Their are strong arguements in both directions between science and christianity .

I've seen people die that should not have died and people that are alive that should be dead. So its as simple as this if its your time to go its your time to go.





















oh and Weets send my meteor shower frag



kthxbye.

Rilly?
It's not available at your local grocery store?
Want me to send you some?



Meteor Shower has a lot of growing out to do yet!

As for the Science/Faith thing, I think that one of the points that Fosi and others have been trying to make here is that we don't feel it's an "either/or" scenario.

Welcome to my World!!!

one of my onyx clowns is gone.............................................

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

What happened?

dunno only saw one in the tank. ripped out all the pump and stuff in the back, thinking he went over the false wall. no fishy. Took the rock out, no fishy..................

Sounds like what happened to my first two percs in my 20L... The world may never know.

Fosi, it's been a little while and I don't remember.
Can you give me a quick overview of what happened with your 20L?
I guess I just want to compare notes with my own experiences.

Don, I am really, really sorry to hear that.
That totally stinks.

Your boys are funny those pics of them in the dryer are really cool.

I know what that feels like.

I originally had two percs in my 5.5g (that's one fish too many, I know). I moved one out as soon as the other became aggressive and the remaining perc stayed in the 5.5g for more than a year before she was rolled into my 20L.

The 20L was always a crap tank, largely due to my crap lighting and crap flow regime.

One day, the perc disappeared. Not on the floor and my cat doesn't eat raw fish. Not in the pumps/filters, not hiding in the rocks... Gone.

Not long after, I took in another clown that a fellow reefer couldn't keep. That fish headed right into the rockwork as soon as I put it in the tank and it never came out.

During all this time I lost a lot of astrea snails and hermits and never replaced them. Then I lot some corals due to equipment malfunctions.

I just let the tank go. No feedings, irregular water changes... I was just really unhappy with the whole thing.

Wife and I went up north for Christmas in '07 and I came back to find a massive algae bloom. No food had been added, but it looked like an overfeeding/death kinda bloom and I stopped missing snails.

Not long after that, I rolled everything into the new tank and I haven't had nearly the mount of problems I did in the old one. I haven't mysteriously lost anything yet though I did lose some corals because I didn't QT them while the system settled down.

Why thank you sir.
We had a lot of fun on that particular photo op, I have lots more crazy pics than the ones I posted.

For those who missed it, and especially for Mama Sue, check out the Crazy Boys in the Dryer Photo Op on the previous pg.

Don, sorry about the clown buddy dat sux.

Susan- I wanna come sit with a cup of joe and just stare.....I'll bring the cookies.

Weets, did that tag say- To prolong dryer life, install offspring ?



And .....where does everyone keep their PD's?
I cannot find a "happy" spot for them at all.
Nukes seem hapy almost anyplace- high light, low light any flow, but these PD's seem fickle.

Speaking of losing stuff........
My tank collection had gotten out of hand (11) and my power bill is seriously crazy (I'll never tell) so I'm trying to downsize to a certain extent (I'll probably always have the high power bill, I will not get rid of my 150) so I moved the jetties nano into one of a pair of (20L) frag tanks I'd had set up for over a year. The other 20L began to catch the contents of the Ghetto Beauty, what didn't go into the jetties nano. I have a pair of sexy shrimp in the Ghetto (one of which I've had for four years!) and intended to move them into the jetties nano where I have several warty mushrooms, a flower anemone and a small bubbletip. Figured something would be to their hosting fancy. While removing corals last night, I suddenly realized one of the sexies was on the front of the tank, easily catchable. Got it in the net and put in a container to acclimate. When I finally put it in the tank I pushed it toward one of the warty mushrooms. I watched it for an hour and it seemed okay but this morning it was dead, still in the same spot. Worse, while trying to figure if it was actually the dead shrimp or a molt, pushing it out from the mushroom so I could see it better, a goby dashed up and ate it. Arrrgggh.
I sure hope it wasn't the 4 year old one. Now I'm not so sure if I'll move the other one or not.

Oh, and of all the fish I've lost over the years, only one (a six line wrasse) did I find at all. That one jumped and I found it dried up on the floor behind the tank weeks after it'd gone missing. They don't call them "clean up crews" for nothing! Oh, take that back, when I lost power to the jetties nano after a storm, all 4 of the fish were belly up within hours.

So the day continues...........................











find the twinspot hogfish I got yesterday laying on the sandbed in my 40 not moving, but breathing. I moved him into a breeder and notice that he has a wound to his belly. So after watching him for 10 min. He stops breathing and is now fish #2 of the day that is DOA.




















I give up on fish......................................

Do you know what caused the wound?

nope the fish was fine yesterday, Im assuming that someone attacked it. or something.

Yo L !!

Clear out yur Pms- box is full!!





Sorry about the fishies dt

Yeah, yeah, yeah, workin on it....

Wow girl, a full PM box? That's craziness.

Yeah, so????
I'm a lil CRAAAAZY , whatcher point????

Nope! Nope! Nope! That's not your world! Too clean!. Those are awesome pics. You'll have to email me the rest of them. That made my my day!




You are welcome any time! So are your cookies!

I moved my PD's in my prop tank to the top & just to the left of the 150W MH light. They started growing better there. There is med flow on that end.





Those were growing over the end of the frag disk. I cut them off with bone cutters & glued it to some rubble. I fragged some more the other night & some are scrunched together & ruffledy & some are nice & round.




I read that book a long time ago. It was really good from what I remember. I'll have to pull it out again. I think I just un-packed it. I am working on Don't Waste Your Life by J. I. Packer right now.

I had to have one?

Dadgummit, if it's not one thing it's another.

UPS just stopped by with my T5HO retro from ReefGeek.
The box with the reflectors and bulbs in it was all banged up and taped back together, so I refused it.

I'm off to email ReefGeek....

Looked like USPS's or ReefGeek's fault?

Geez, you have some of the worst luck.