Hey everyone. I'm looking at starting up a non-photo tank. Does anyone have a suggestion (other than those mentioned below) for stocking? For the most part I'm looking for nice, brightly coloured corals. Before I get flamed, I'd like to mention that I have some experience with non-photo corals and I know what it will take to keep them happy

Possible stock list:
Scleronephthya (Cauliflower)
Alcyonium (Chili)
Tubastrea (Sun)

Possibly a Flame Scallop or a Non-photo Gorgonian, but these aren't my first choices

This isn't a coral, but tube anemones are non-photosynthetic, and come in beautiful colors.

Good call on the tube anemones as far as colour goes... but they are way too big for a nano, IMO. I've seen a suggestion for a 40 gallon minimum due to size, waste production, and aggressiveness. Plus, a tube anemone would pretty much wipe out all of the other species listed above

Dendros & certain duncans

Also, I'm not totally sure about the difference between Dendrophyllia and Tubastrea, other than the size. Can anyone help me out here?

And what 'certain' Duncans would you be talking about?

Here's someone with a similar idea asking similar questions, thought you might find it helpful...



http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.p...light=temperate

a rhyzo would be the perfect center piece.

Just found this thread. How is you tank doing?

There was a study done on tube anemones that showed that they have among the weakest stings of all cnidaria, and feed on plankton. The idea that they are "aggressive" is a myth, and in my opinion they would make an excellent tankmate for an azooxanthellate tank.


http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/june2004/invert.htm

It 'cycled' about 3 weeks ago, and it's sitting mainly dormant with an elephant-ear mushroom and some snails. Still not quite sure what to do, I have some nice zoa frags and I think I might do a garden

With tube anemone and nano tanks one problem for sure - when I bought my peach-pink, in store it was of reasonable size. After placing it in the tank - it opened twice big, 11" /29 cm in deameter

Tube anemone in NPS tank may have conflict with flow requirements. Cerianthus likes low flow, moving tentacles, but not swept aside. Scleronephthya, for example, prefers much higher flow. I had hard time rearranging rocks in 90g tank, to make slower flow corner. But I had heard, that the purple with green center are smaller in general and not grow fast.

Non-photosynthetic tank:
If you check mikekman at Reef Central (sorry, don't have a link), he has big Nano-cube, with AquaFuge behind, with Remora on the back of Aquafuge. The NPS corals in his tank are of moderate size, this keeps pollution lower. Quite a rare pieces.
I had seen similar setup, but for usual corals, in gallery here, at Nano-Reef.

You will need a very good filtration/skimming or small corals, not sceros and dendros (that require abundant almost constant feedings).
The easiest from what I tries, were orange swiftia and red or yellow finger gorgonians (diodogorgia), followed by sun coral, fed by tweezers (several heads, not hundred ). Flow 160 gph for 6 g nano-cube, at least twice a day feeding by cyclop eeze, rotifers, baby brine or whatever available in 200-800 micron range. NMysis and seafood for sun coral.

And chili coral could likely be very problematic - there is thread on ultimatereef.net non-photosynthetic forum, if lives well in one tanks, but requires intense care in others, and dies after months in thirds. Still not sure, what influences this.

Sclero will recuire very high flow (6-7"/sec, but not skin tearing blast), and almost constant feeding, 10x oversized skimmer is usually used on these big tanks).

Just providing some information on corals in question.
Zoa garden will require significantly less care

Good luck!

There's a guy in our local salt club (Cleveland Salt Club aka C-SEA) who has the most incredible non-photo tank I've ever seen. Last year, he gave a presentation on it to our club. His basket stars are just incredible. Here is an article about his husbandry. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-02/feature/index.php

how about coco worms and feather dusters?

That tank is a dream. Incredible. Phosphate as high as 2ppm? Continuous feeding on a peristaltic? Wow!

Dendronephthya are my favorites corals, but I don't have a single one nor have I ever even though about actually getting one.

Stottlemire has also chili corals growing, frags are growing too, swiftia spawning ( info from Kreeger1 at similar thread at RC). Pity, that he is no available for conversation about details and particular corals requirements, and no photos of the hardware setup and progress of some corals in time, only corals and tank pictures . I'm grateful for what was published online, only would like my NP corals grow too . If you are in direct contact, can you post more about his system on his behalf, as Amy does on her website?

More about this kind of feeding - at Danny Dame old tank description (link). Nice links to other tanks at the bottom. Similar feeding, but for non-photosynthetic gorgonians, is described by joanxavier , translation can be made using Google Language tools. Same website, Colt's dendronephtya tank, more.

More affordable way of prolonged feeding is described by Jens Kallmeyer here and her tank. Really good description of the system and practices.This colder water tank also well worth to take a look at.

jacksok's system description, more - here, continuous feeding another way. He has chili for 3 years, but is out of reach too.

You already know GARF links, more, even more, and gorgonians.

KeithMan experiment, with all equipment and photo of automated feeder.
Matt's cube built.

And dendronephthya study group, where other tanks are described.

About feather dusters and coco worms:
no particular links, but I have the smaller red-black feather duster and hithhickers(sp?) on Christmas tree rock, more than 1" crown, and Christmas tree worms - they are alive and kicking even after 1.5 years of basic feeding and good lighting for porites. Mix of different sized zooplancton and substitutes, 50-800 micron range, whatever is available, a couple of times daily, but in sufficient quantities - worms are quite big - you can see the body size. I'm feeding more frequently, but it could be overkill.
HTH

What about some of the deepwater gorgonians?

I'd suggest looking into Fauna Marin's line of products for non-photosynthetic animals (UltraBooster, MinF, UltraLife, etc). They've had some outstanding results keeping otherwise difficult animals alive. Danny Dame's tank in the link posted by non-photo above uses some of the FM line.

n-p, I used to have all those links but lost them. Thanks for that post, it was great. I'll be setting up a nonphotosynthetic system soo, so I need to re-research everything, hehe.

Jeremai, what do you particularly have in mind - size of tank, kind of setup and dendronephthya or gorgonians oriented? I can add more specific links, if you wish.

Deepwater gorgonians: after the sun coral, the larger-polyped from these are next easiest from non-photosynthetic corals, except blueberry gorgonian. Still, they will need properly sized food (zooplankton) in sufficient amounts, and filtration/skimming, able to clean the water after such feedings. I tried few kinds, here is comparison:

The most trouble-free (except rapid tissue necrosis ) and gratifying from them for me was Swiftia kofoidi - almost fluorescent tangerine color. Frags without problem (thin skin, gentle handling and periodic watering to keep from drying during procedure would be better). Polyps medium sized - less problem with food. Open almost all time, if the food is present, and some time after that. Resistant to bryopsis, microalgae growth, catching debris on its surface or growing bacterial film. I think, that the proper size of food will be 600 micron and less. Recovers good - mine was dieing with RTN, now good.
And in article, mentioned above, it was spawning i the tank.

Next - red or yellow finger gorgonian, Diodogorgia nodulifera. Large polyped, you can see through transparent polyp wall, how the food is processed. 800 micron is not a problem, but this is the upper limit, IMHO. Frags easily, as any of them, only it has not a hard rod, but slightly harder, than skin central core (at least mine have), some care, when cutting. Half of mine were shipped exposed to air - still alive and kicking. Prone to debris settlement, if the tank has high particulates content, to red cyano covering, or bacterial film in tanks with bad filtration. Recovers after removing. Resistant to bryopsis and algae growth. GARF frags them all they time and they actually grow for them. None from mine grows new branches, basal growth only.

Others recommended Menella, didn't tried it.

The small polyped, with thin 1-1.5mm thick branches kinds:
Red whip gorgonian - red with double rows at sides of the white polyps, possibly Leptogorgia punicea,
and medium-blue small polyped one, possibly Guaiagorgia, were problematic - prone to being smothered by bryopsis, and the red one, aside from looking miserable in general, catches every piece of debris, floating around. Both require food of the rotifer or baby brine size - ~150 micron. Blue was not that bad.

Blueberry dies for the most, I never seen it eating, despite the big polyps.

This is all. Others were not available - I had seen them, but they were already sold.
Would vote for Swiftia, recommend diodogorgia, and to stay away from small-polyped kings, but that just me - you could like them. Icyuodd has fabulous bicolor gorgonian, swiftia and the purple one.

BTW, if you find something particularly good, trouble free within reason - let me know too.

See the thread I made about the horizontal gyre in this section, the 20H with the lion will be nonphotosynthetic. I'm leaning toward dendros, but definitely some Swifitia and Diodogorgia, to keep my hopes up if the dendros die.

Where do i get these state side?
I have found several vendors that are supposed to carry this line of foods but never have them in

I like carnation coral, pretty easy to care for imo.

Psuedocorynactis (Orange Ball Anemone), I have to say very hardy. I got mine as a hitch hiker, survived waterless for 24 hours, ammonia spike, and salinity 1.30 sg. He was around 2-3mm when i got him, now he is 2 cm. Apparently they get 6 inches (15cm)! But they dont move at all, and stay put (well i haven't seen mine move) I even tried moving it, but he is on an ugly/bulky piece of rock.


Great thing is, it doesn't need any lighting at all. I feed mines every other day, but once a week will do.