I couldn't agree with you more. It would definitely cost more as a custom build, and that's my only reservation. The 36x18 Illuminata would be turn key. All I would need is a stand and I could use all of my existing gear. I could even keep my rockscape the same, and add to smaller rock structures to the left and right for lower light corals like chalices, zoas and acans. But part of me is seriously contemplating to just spend the cash and run dual halide pendants. That would easily solve the shadow problem.

And for the record, I DO WANT THE ACID TRIP

Yeah, at some point I want to run dual halides over a similar sized tank too. I just don't want the 500 watt energy bill and then if you're at that point you might as well add at least two T5s or two rows of LEDs.... At that point though you might as well get a 75 with the two halides.... Hmm... Sounds like a wonderful plan

And for the record, I want the Acid Trip too I just don't want the price tag.

You and I think alike! Just let me know where I can get a custom 24 x 24 x 18 with an external center overflow, delivered (or local) for less than $400, and I'm getting it. The money saved will go towards buying a $400 acid trip frag. LOL. Strange, I'm very budget conscientious when it comes to equipment. But when it comes to corals, I can play loose. I suppose it has a lot to do resale value. I understand that the price of chalice frags will drop gradually over the next year. However, those same frags will grow into mini colonies, which will hopefully offset some depreciation. Okay, I'm done with the money talk. It can get depressing. Moving forward let's just forget about the how much. It's all about what, when, where, who, how, & why.

Seriously though, I'm leaning Oceanic Illuminata unless someone can point me in the right direction for a 24 x 24 x 18?

I'm all fragged out and ready for the MARS swap this coming weekend. Bringing a nice batch of "Tier 1" corals, which is required if you want to pick in the first round. My honest opinion on swaps? It's more of a fun thing, and a promote the propagation of corals thing, than a coral acquisition thing. IMO, internet forums are the best place to score the good stuff.

Which brings me to my last point for the evening - Although we may promote reef preservation through trading and propagation, the coral that collectors really want are the ones that haven't been discovered. This ongoing demand for rare corals fuels the desire to harvest from the ocean. So it could be hypocritical of me to buy rare frags, but my position on this matter is different. If what they say is true, that the coral reefs are in danger of becoming extinct within the next decade, than the collectors may actually be contributing to the preservation of species. So when judgment day comes, I just might be spared. Whatever makes me feel better, huh? And goodnight.

fwiw, i hear it's only cool looking under all actinic lighting and it's red and brown under anything else. might not be the best way to drop 400 bones.

besides, where the hell would you put it in that sardine can of a reef you have?

Compared to the number of corals lost to typhoons, tsunamis, dynamite fishing, Crown of Thorns starfish infestations, bleaching events, reef destruction for its limestone, etc., the corals taken by a relatively few collectors is a minor disturbance.

Extinction of corals in a decade, they say? If sea levels rise (or fall) new reefs will be created. If waters become to hot or cool, corals will grow in other areas where the temperature suits them.

The oldest know fossilized coral reef is around 1 billion years old (in what is today Vermont), so imagine all the severe geological and climatic events they have had to endure through the ages.

There is no doubt in my mind that corals will be around long, long after we (as a species) have disappeared.

cool! glad it's working for you.

sorry to rehijack purps. i'll be sure to make up for it for it next time i see you

That's quite the little want list you have there Randy but I agree enough of the money talk. Sometimes I look at my tank and can't believe how much time and energy (and money) has gone into it. When I first started reefing, I spent most of my time trying to keep optimal conditions and was just so freaking paranoid that I was going to make a mistake and crash my tank. After almost 4 years of reefing, I find that I spend a little less time tinkering with things, let things take a more natural course (instead of freaking out) and I find that I've been getting more enjoyment out of the tank as a result. I just like the challenge of keeping, growing, and acquiring nice SPS frags. Still haven't really jumped into Chalice both hands and feet but I'm sure I will some day. I've been really enjoying the Acans and Chalice that you sent me for the time being



When you posted about this tank last week I immediately checked it out. What a great tank although I'm with you, I would love a nice 24 x 24 x 18 rimless. Just love the 24" length and the additional width would be great to have as well. Never had a true cube tank (closest was my BC29) although I've long thought that they turned out to be some of the best looking tanks.

Hope you had an enjoyable Labor Day. Back to the grindstone

Hehehe ... you are just like me ... until I was like ... no more room in the nano ... to get those awesomely delicious frags ... to which they will grow faster in a bigger tank ... therefore curbing the fact that they depreciate in value over time ...


Hey ... at least that is what I tell myself

That's what I needed to hear, to keep me away from the acid trip for the time being. Mag racks baby. I still gots plenty of room for those.

Yeah Man, it's a confidence thing I think. Less time with the hands in the tank, means greater skimmer production, means greater water quality and happier corals. Once I got past the point of worry that my tank was gonna crash, I gained more and more courage to put the good stuff in it. I think it's a desire to be challenged and the need to up the risk if the tank fails. No need to rush, Adam. Chalices aren't goin anywhere. You're one of the smart ones. When prices crash, they'll still look the same!

Yes, this is what I truly want. Just need to find a good custom tank builder. I've gotten so used to the seamless seams of an ADA tank, that I would expect the same quality with a new one.

Excellent weekend. Capped it off with a Monday fishing trip to the delta. Caught nothin but shakers, but the kids loved it.


If this is true, I need a bigger tank stat.

I bet Randy....I'd assume that it will be very difficult to replicate the quality of the ADA tanks. I think you went ahead and spoiled yourself with the one you have now

Sounds like a great end to the weekend...I'm sure the weather was fantastic. The trip is often more fun than actually catching anything.

I saw a Crown of Thorns infestation in the Philippines. Nothin but those things and sea cucumbers surrounding a tiny island, where corals should thrive. It's comforting to think that corals will continue to thrive long after we've become extinct. (Unless the cause of our disappearance is due to the Sun burning out )

K, only happy thoughts this week. We skipped Monday. Think Flamethrower.

This part isn't right. The problem is not that the sea level will rise or fall, it's the quickness in which this will occur. I know corals can grow fairly quickly, but this is a pretty rapid shift that some people have predicted. If the waters become too hot or cold you're looking at similar problems. I'm sure they'll hold out in some places, but honestly, a lot of our reefs are going to die and thankfully aquaculture is one way we can keep the species alive.

The oldest confirmed coral dates to the Cambrian circa 540 MYA. There are sketchy reports that go back to about 600 MYA, but that's highly debatable. For octocorals its also around 600-700 MYA (sea pens, gorgonians, etc). Also, scleractinian corals, the hard corals we keep only date to the early middle Triassic ~230 MYA.

Sorry about the hijack... Again.

No worries. This is certainly relevant information. Good stuff at that. I'm gonna earmark this page for future reference

***
I bought one of the most amazing chalices that I've ever seen. But I'm not gonna post any pics until it ends up in my tank. (Otherwise it could become another IceFire hoax frag - which I still do not have yet btw. lol) Oh my, I've been staring at the photos all day. This one has come somewhere from outer space.

Yes, we *may* loose a number of reefs (which has happened many, many times in the past), but we are talking about species survival. I just can't see all (or even the bulk) of the world's corals going fully extinct.

I could have sworn the website I found stated '1 billion years', but after additional review I see that Vermont's fossil reef is about 1/2 billion years old.

Now taking you back to Randy's awesome tank and corals...

have you bought your ticket for the mars swap yet? I just bought mine a few days ago. I got some crazy stuff coming so i can get some sick stuff

Fair about the not posting a pic but you've definitely piqued my interest. Honestly, with the quality of this tank, if it's not on a Superman or a flamethrower level, I'll be surprised.
I hope you get your IceFire frag too!

Nice Randy...way to lead us on

I'm sure it's nothing short of spectacular, whatever you ended up getting.

What's the deal with the Icefire? Did something fall through or are you saying that you just haven't gotten it yet?

I think it's definitely on that level, but it's all in the eye of the beholder. This one has been named by a reputable showpiece collector. He has only sold a few frags of it within the past couple of years, and the original owner has lost the mother colony. Very very cool piece w/ 5 eyes and I do hope it finds its way into my tank.


The IceFire should be picked up this Friday (or Sat) from someone who has been raising it in his tank for the past several years. It was originally obtained from John @ YourReef, who obtained his seed colony directly from Karl Unarce. I believe I'm getting 2 fully encrusted frags.

Awesome Randy. Mine has really really been coloring up lately. Looking at it now from the front and especially from above, it looks like the ends/tips of each corallite are burning with a blue butane flame. Hence Icefire, I guess

It really is a pretty amazing looking coral....delicate branching structure with great coloration.

Looking forward to the pics on your thread, Adam!

***
What a relief. Lumatek digital ballast FINALLY arrived today and it installed incredibly easily, with no soldering required. Fired up silently on the first attempt with no clicking sound. Honestly can't say that it's brighter than with the magnetic ballast, but it has the nice crisp white/blue tone I remember. It's nice when new equipment works. Hopefully, this new digital ballast will save some energy too.

Hey Purp, Picture of your new Lumatek digital ballast would be nice to see how your tank and corals are doing. i still love your new addiction of corals.. to bad we are gonna go broke! lol

Np, I can snap a couple for you tomorrow morning. I've always been addicted to corals. It's only recently that I got turned on to chalices, which are unfortunately the priciest corals at the moment. Whoa, no more grumbling about cost remember? From now on, we just drop the Gs and don't look back.

If anyone can be an advocate for a 24x24" tank, it's me! I am loving mine dude (even though its only 12" high). Something about the LxWxhalf L/W style tank makes me drool.. I've been thinking about starting a 2nd cube, 30x30x15.. But if I do that I will never finish my 187G project...

Loving this tank man, you got some gorgeous coral!

24X24X18 drilled, with a 250 halide and either 18 Royal blue LEDS or a pair of T5s for color. Oh yeah.... With a foot print like that you could do a center overflow.... Think about that one! (though a center halide wouldn't work with a central overflow. All LEDs then!) All sides visible.
I can't wait to see said chalice and said Icefire as well!

Hahaha. You guys got me diggin the cube concept. How bout a bare-bottom 24 x 24 x 18 black silicone cube; with a drilled *external* center overflow; running on a 250W 20K Radium Halide inside a LumenMax Elite Reflector; with 2 sunbrite actinic LED tubes suspended from the pendant; plus TWO MP10s located on the opposite left and right sides of the display?!?!?

that sound like a awsome set-up you better start saving your allowance LOL.

See I was talking about the type of overflow where it's literally in the center of the tank. All sides visible, no overflow boxes on the walls of the tank. It doesn't show it extremely well, but this tank has one http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-12/totm/index.php Otherwise. Oh yeah that sounds amazing. The external drilled overflows would be amazing.

Hey Randy did you get your icefire frags yet? let me know if ur still gonna get em. thanks.

Now THAT would be a setup Randy. Gotta agree with Scotty....better start scrapping together your nickels and dimes

18"s is too tall.. 16 or less, C'mon!!! Don't you just LOVE the look of Shallow Rimless Cubes...


Sounds like a sweet system though. I really like the look of the lumenmax Elites. Do you think 2 MP10s is enough? I got a MP20 in my cube and I'm honestly thinking about adding a 2nd powerhead on the other side (maybe a Tuzne 6025)

What are the MP10's rated at again?

LoL ... Wait a second Randy ... I got this exact tank for you ... not joking here ... Alls you got to do is come by and pick it up ... and well fight the g/f for it ... but I am not sure which one is more inconvenient for you ... hmmmmmmm ...

Anything less than 18 and my SPS will be peaking out of the water. But shallow cubes are nice. I'd totally go with one if I built a setup exclusively for chalices and acans. But this will be more of a tank upgrade.

You beat me to the punch with the MP10 question. I was thinking the same thing. 2X MP40s! LOL



Hurry up and mail it to me!!!! We'll talk about cash later

Traded some zoas on R2R this week. Just signed up and already got some action. I love it!

Rainbows


Nightmares. There's 3 of em here. Just cant see the other 2 on the backside.


KO's Nightmare (single polyp)
No pic yet, because it's still not open

Trading zoas/palys is easy and stress free, bc you can priority ship 2 day and they'd still survive. But USPS Express for these was only $27 overnight from NY. Trying to get some Pink Elephants and Rastas too.

Oh that's it ... I am coming to join you on R2R ... get in on this action as well ... I heard they got some REALLY NICE stuff over there! LE High end ... mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ... fragilicious

Yeah they got some nice stuff over r2r. Just signed up the other day and notices there were some nr over there as well. Haha

Haha, it's yours for the taking. There's good stuff here on NR too. I just need to hang out in the classifieds more often.


So I checked out this tank. What I would do for a setup like that. I would even tolerate the flowery furniture for a setup like that. lol

Speaking of possibilities, what about an A.G.E. Starphire? Anyone know where I could get one locally? CA?


Friday. Oh that's tomorrow. I'm glad it's almost Friday

hey randy if you do hang out more in the classifieds page here. Let me know if you wanna trade or sell some of your corals. That be so sweeeet!

I actually PREFER trading with my peeps on NR. I think I might need a little more growth before I start hacking up my frags into nothingness. But yes, I'd be glad to. Let me see your chalices!

Oh and I owe you an FTS, but the tank was crowed with frags racks today. Gettin ready for the big swap on Sat. Maybe we wait until late next week. The tank could look entirely different by then.

Alright, I remember your tank, it was a real inspiration when I first started, then you dropped out of sight , now that you've returned, it is full speed ahead huh? Great tank, I always admired how it was the centerpiece of the kitchen. Oh, FYI, I wanted a matching frag tank for my display, and A.G.E. quoted me 900.00 for a 20"x20"x12" center external overflow, with a 1" drain and 3/4" return through the overflow. It was going to be 1/2" starphire, with a 3/4" PVC bottom. Shipping was going to be through FedEx ground, and cost around 150. Give Chris Brenes a shout, he will take care of you faster than anyone locally. I saw one of those new Oceanic's, and IMO, after having that ADA, you should either get an A.G.E. or Elos, if you want to go larger.

randy:

get the elos 120xl so you don't have to wait for the AGE. pick it up in pleasanton

$1000 for a frag tank!?! I guess we can just forget about saving money this year, huh? Sounds like quality craftsmanship if you're comparing it to an Elos or ADA though. Never saw one so I may just have to trust your judgement. $1000 for a frag tank!@#! Can't get over it At least Elos comes with the sump, right?

Funny, when I saw the Oceanic I was like, "ill, someone rubbed snot along the sides of the tank. Oh that's silicone." But I did like the price


That's a big tank, Dan. My chalices frags would look like itty bitty grains of sand in it. Plus, I might be moving to Southern Cal! I'd do a 60 Elos or smaller, if they have that size.

Dude, have you ever seen one of those Elos stands...MDF, that is skeery Plus the top piece and the front panel are not flush, so the tank sits on an overhang...It's worth the wait, plus you can get exactly what you want, and if you are paying that money, you should...



I originally wrote...with all those LE chalices in that tank, don't get the Oceanic, that would be like parking a M3 in a shed....but I deleted it...now that I saw your reply, I had to put it up....lol

Hahahaha. AGE tanks come with the stand too? How bout sump? All sides starphire? You've peaked my interest. Man, if I go this way, no chalices for a while. And I like me my LE chalices.

Talk about a predicament. What did I get myself into.

No they are just the tank, you need to have either AGE build a stand, or have someone local build one. I had Aquarium Showroom do it, and they did a great job. Three sides are starphire, but if you want all 4 sides starphire you can get it like that. It's custom, you can get anything you want, it's a beautiful thing, and a great way of rewarding yourself for all your hard work year round.,...lol

My tank is 1/2" starphire on three sides, 1/2" float glass with black vinyl applied, the overflow is 1/2" black acrylic, the bottom is 1" grey PVC.....They can make hybrid tanks out of glass, PVC and acrylic. If you wanted a tank placed where you have your ADA, I'd get a 4 sided starphire, with a center overflow...

Uh oh Randy...sounds like your plans for money saving are done

Love the new additions from your deal over on R2R. Glad to hear that you are already getting in on the action over there. Like I've told you in the past, I've been a member over there when it was still Club-Zoa.com. The owner, Rev, is a great guy. I got my first coral, a huge frogspawn, from him when I first started reefing.

Happy Friday

After much internal deliberation and soul searching, here's what I've come up with (so far):

1. 21" x 21" x 16" 30 Gallon A.G.E.
2. External center overflow
3. 1/4" glass (if they make it that thin)
4. Starphire front panel
5. Black vinyl on back panel
6. PVC bottom (bare bottom)
7. No additional holes. MP20's will handle the flow
8. Oh, and most importantly, I WANT TWO

These tanks will be plumbed together and placed on opposite sides of my existing 3/4" glass table, each lit by their very own 250W halide pendants. I am comfortable spending considerably more on these tanks, since most of my existing gear can still be used - with no stand required. The current rockscape will remain as-is for the left side tank, and a new chalice-centric design will be created for the right side. I call it: "A MATCH MADE IN HEAVEN." Decided that "Chalice Palice" sounds too high society for me.

***
Adam, I forgot about saving money the day I came back to NR. Plus, this will be my personal contribution to our ever struggle economy

Can you please design my next tank Randy? That is one heck of a setup and would be phenomenal. It's nice once you get a point where you have quality equipment that lasts a long time and can be reused on new tanks.

I'll have to hunt around, but I think there is a thread on here where someone had two 30g that they plumbed together. The difference was that the tanks were on opposite sides of a wall and the guy plumbed it so that it crossed a doorway. Pretty cool looking.

I was a bit iffy on the size until I saw you wanted two! I'm a hundred percent for it. Hey! If you had the overflows off to one size you could put the tanks back to back so they kinda fit together. Less space between them, more continuous display. I'm assuming you're going to be plumbing them into one sump? Awesome overall.
Though honestly getting one that's 42X21X16 with a center island overflow would be entirely seamless.... You could even get a pair of boxes in the island overflow to contain two MP 40Ws so they stay high and dry. Just an idea.

Actually... I want that second idea when I'm actually earning enough to put one together. (stupid doctorate still a long way off)