Oh. I think that's what I have. My tank was a gift and thay gave that with it. It's like little shells and other stuff. I did otice it changes into some nasty colors!

I do believe that one of the major problems with crushed coral (or any loosly packed substrate) is that it doesn't promote the proper aerobic and anaerobic bacteria growth. It's such large pieces that food and detritus falls down into it where the CUC can't reach it to clean it up, and can cause Nitrate problems. It also allows a lot of water flow. I'm pretty sure that a properly mature sand bed is undisturbed without water flowing through it, for the most part.


On a side note, I'm glad to see that this thread is growing steadily. It would be nice if it were better organized though.

This has already been mentioned, but don't rush out and fill your tank with corals within the first two months. Be selective about the corals you buy, as time goes on your coral preference will most likely change. I see so many new tanks stocked full with the same common corals and most likely half of the corals in those tanks will be sold/traded away at some point.

+1,000

I see people's 10 gallon tanks in here that have more corals than my 75 does after a year. Give'em room to grow in!

Just to add. Search here sux. It is better to search from google using for example, searching for nano skimmer,

nano skimmer :site: nano-reef.com

will make google search for the phrase in nano-reef.com only, where both words exists in the same message. The search here will give you a useless result that contains any one of the words.

Regarding DIY, if for educational purpose as mentioned, then it is an excellent idea. But certainly not for saving money or to get something that looks good. Some DIY articles gives a misleading impression that it will cost less, and if you look closely, the materials list looks like this, have this part laying around, cost $0, got that part from a friend, cost $0, total cost, $0.

I've read and reread this thread, as well as others talking about RO water. I was originally planning on using tap, and the book I had purchased claimed that it was fine provided you took the time to find out what your local water company added to it and treated it appropriately. So, here's a short flurry of questions I have unanswered:

If I know what's in my tap and can treat the water effectively for it, what are the other drawbacks/issues with using tap? What is the normal cost of RO/DI water and where should I look to purchase it? (My LFS does not supply it.)

I will be using a 34g Solana set up, if that matters.

Hey look.... page 8 of crap



If you want to use tap go ahead, but don;t be surprised when you have forests of algae and your coral is pissed because there is copper or lead or who knows what in the water. People always try to get around it, and in a FORLR tank maybe you can. But when you combine coral with the light required to keep it, you are going to have one hell of an algae problem.

Start by finding out what's in your tap water. In Chicago they add polyphosphate to inhibit corrosion. I don't know how much makes it to the user, but I have algae problems in our Brita water filter pitcher. If that's common practice, you might face the same issue. They also use Chloramine which I believe feeds the nitrogen cycle.

Okie Dokie where to start. I am currently in the proocess of starting my tank the water has been cycling for about 1 week and i have researched as much as i can but i have a few probably silly questions.
1. I have a atm biological filter on my freshwater tank which will be used for the sw once i have the water cycled. and just read in this thread that bio-balls are no good is this true and how about active carbon?
2. When people say i have a 20g set up is that like 20litres or im not sure?
3.The spot that i have in mind is in direct sunlight will this be beneficial or harmul to my setup?

Thats all i can think of atm plaese bare with me as i have learnt the hard way when i started my freshwater tank and want to get this right the first time.

this is the thread for answers not questions. if you post in the beginners section you might have more responses

That's not possible, especially if you live in the city. Reef tanks are complex systems and the stuff that gets added to tap water is completely foreign in coral reefs and as such may have an unforeseeable effect on your corals.

The normal cost of an RO/DI unit ranges from about $100 to $200 and the filters will easily last you a year. Before I had my own filter I was paying anything from $.35 a gallon to $.10 a gallon.

+1. "Treating" tap water is not the same as "filtering" tap water. Filtering your water is the only way to remove unwanted compounds and ions. Treating, at best, only neutralizes the toxicity of certain things like chlorine/chloramine; it does not remove them from the water.

broken link.

fixed
http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/acclimationguide.asp?did=9

I know Im a n00b to reefs, but I do have lots of aquarium experience and I have 3 suggestions that may apply:

1. When you can, sent up a quarentene tank. I wish I would have. Learn that QT means quarintene tank because its difficult to spell!

2. Try your best to use the scientific names when referring or researching something; it assures that you are all referring to the same creature. Sometimes a creature may have several different names and their care requirements can be vastly different.

3. Have fun and learn and share what youve learned. Thats what this is all about anyway. Also, many new things have been learned about corals from hobbyists, maybe someday you can contribute to the greater scientific knowledge!

Really Great Stuff!

Food for thought on your LFS

Stop by your LFS on a regular basis

1. Get to know the employees and be nice, what goes around comes around
2. Even if your not buying they should be getting new corals on a regular basis, find out how often and just go check it out. They will notice you come in and what goes around comes around when you do buy
3. Find out if the LFS buys farm raised \ wild corals.... Get tank raised if possible!!! they usually do better in the tank anyways (tons of post about this debate on lots of sites) and it helps keeps a few more guys in the ocean.
4. If you are nice to them they will be nice to you (I got 5 kenya tree frags for 10 bucks ...$2 a piece is a lot nicer than 5 or 10 a piece)
5. Talk to all of the employees and find out about their tanks and what websites they recommend
---if they don't recommend any sites or say they are a waste of time, you may want to look for a new LFS
6. Find out what saltmixes they use and ask to see their sump \ fuge \ etc... systems setups for their main tanks if they aren't out in the open.
---side note:... if there main tanks are dirty and full of crap, you will be bringing it back to your tank.
7. Don't be afraid if you see a little bubble algae in a LFS tank (I mean a real small amount, it does come in on their stock) Most likely they will have a few crabs in there to knock it out. Most of the time you won't see any. --- This should not be a regular theme at the LFS but it does happen
8. For starting your nano a good LFS will give you the 5 to 10 gallons of water out of their main tank supply to start your tank off (It's coming out of an established tank with all of the good stuff already in it, this does help with establishing your tank) -- Seen debates about this also -- remember ... Search Read Search Read
9. Ask if they will order for you. You really like a specific type of zoo... Well ask if they can get it and how much... if they can get it for 20% more or less buy local.... ex. $20 frag online + shipping (don't forget this when you are comparing to a LFS price) then do a 20% markup and it's more than fair
---- You will see I got my tank for 20 to 50 bucks cheaper online ... well don't forget the 10 to 20 bucks in shipping, 25+ for overnight .... and instant gratification is always nice.
10. If a coral just came in and you want it, ask them to hold it for a few days to make sure it's healthy (any good LFS will do this)
11. Pay the few extra bucks for any test strips \ additives you use at the LFS (little things like that help keep them open)
12. lots of other things about the LFS but you get the idea

Thanks guys/gals! This noob appreciates all the info and Nano-Reef.com! You guys rock!

That's a good list but you forgot a major one.

Take all advice given by LFS employees with a large grain of salt. They have a financial interest in you and their advice can and will be heavily biased towards purchasing something from their store. Do your own research, most of the time you'll actually be more knowledgeable about the hobby than they are and you can find an answer and a solution to anything online if you know where to look and who to trust.

Adding tank water from an LFS will do nothing to help your tank - fresh salt water is better as there are less bad nutrients and the good nutrients are not depleted. In addition to this you don't know whether the LFS is adding copper to their tanks (some will not admit to it).

What you actually need is a good scoop of the junk in their sumps! This will give you a good seed of bacteria (they don't float free in the water).

Why would they do that?

To kill parasites on fish

As L3ANN3 said. Many places have separate water systems for their fish-only tanks and their reef/invert tanks. The "fish" water is treated with copper to help keep the fish happy. It's good to ask when you buy a fish or LR whether or not the water it is/was in was treated with copper. I include fish because we all can make mistakes if we float-acclimate and we might accidently put copper-treated water into our reef tanks.

+1. It is better to not buy something that you weren't going to get than to waste money (and perhaps an animal's life) on something that the LFS said would be suitable/"reef-safe". Everyone may think that it's okay if some snails die from hermits, if a starter fish doesn't survive the cycle, or if tank water with Caulerpa is dumped into a storm drain. However, it is that kind of attitude that causes environmentalists and others to view our hobby as a threat and thus a cause for stricter collection regulations.

what does ro/di stand for?

Really?? Reverse Osmosis DeIonized or basically 0 TDS (Total Dissolved Solids)

I think Im in the right topic. Ive had FW for some time now, and Ive decided I was a small SW, 2 Nemos and annomie (cant sp it yet) and some live rock. 20 gal is about as big as I can go. I have 4 FW tanks and no more room, as it is, this tank will have to go in the kitchen:) I have one corner left.

I dont know anything about SW tanks. Is a small tank called a nano tank? or is a nano something totally diff?
I dont want a bunch of expensive stuff and equipment, I hope this can be done with some pretty basic stuff.
Can a tall tank be used so I have more water? or am I headed or trouble right off the bat?
Distilled water ok for top offs?
Carb sand and rock?
Over the side filter?
mandatory to have a skimmer?


humm, I think thats it for starters. This site looks very nice. Hello everyone.

Hey Jersey Chick why did you change your logo? I thought it was great

to nano-reef.com

This thread is mainly for lists of advice (and some ranting) from members. Most of the older and more experienced members rarely check this thread, and your questions are best answered by creating a "new topic" in the beginners forum. Most of the answers to your questions can be found here (start with reading all the "beginners" articles and the glossary):
http://www.nano-reef.com/info/

This article has been useful to help explain freshwater and saltwater differences (including the wide range of costs). Please keep in mind that a marine tank is expensive, and can be more expensive if you try and cut too many corners when starting. It may contain some out of date equipment:
http://www.fishlore.com/saltwatervsfreshwater.htm

Also, I must advise that while keeping clownfish ("Nemos") is a relatively easy task, keeping suitable anemone hosts requires an established tank and good water/lighting conditions. Remember that wild anemone populations take a long time (they can live for decades) to recover from harvesting, and they should only be introduced when your tank is stable. Clownfish do not require anemones to survive, and many will take alternate hosts such as torch or frogspawn coral.

Since you're placing the tank in a kitchen, remember to consider excess heat sources since saltwater tanks rely on a stable temperature of around 78-80 degrees Fahrenheit.

I'll answer your questions here this time, but remember to make a new thread to get more answers and ask other questions.

I dont know anything about SW tanks. Is a small tank called a nano tank? or is a nano something totally diff?
Nano tanks are generally less than 30 gallons. A subset is the pico reefs, which are around 5 gallons or less and definitely need a lot of dedication and limited livestock. Reef tanks are setup to keep sessile (non-moving) invertebrates like corals and clams. Easier setups include FOWLR (fish only with live rock).

I dont want a bunch of expensive stuff and equipment, I hope this can be done with some pretty basic stuff.
Once again, try to think about costs in the long-run. Lighting can be the most expensive equipment, but it will make difference in what, if any, types of corals/clams/anemones you can keep. You can keep things simple by doing DIY work.

Can a tall tank be used so I have more water? or am I headed or trouble right off the bat?
Tall tanks are less favorable than long tanks because of decreased light penetration (especially for fluorescent lighting). It is helpful to start with a large and long tank (the "breeder" sizes).

Distilled water ok for top offs?
Distilled is good; RO/DI (reverse osmosis deionized) is better. Avoid tap water because of the, usually, insufficient treatment and filtration.

Carb sand and rock?
A good sand choice is aragonite (or calcite). Don't get "aquarium gravel" or things used for freshwater. Live rock is the foundation of your filtration; get at least 1-1.5 pounds per gallon.

Over the side filter?
External filters full of bio-media quickly become nitrate factories because of clogging and detritus. Most people don't use them for actual filtration; some place chemical media like phosphate absorbers.

mandatory to have a skimmer?
Not really, except if you are going to have a predator tank or SPS tank. Skimmers have their benefits, but you must stick with the regular weekly water changes if you're not having a skimmer.

Rule of thumbs are garbage. Never use them.

For example: 1 cleaner per gallon. You can't fit 10 fighting conchs in a 10 gallon. 10 really small cleaners won't do the trick. Know the species, their capabilities and there requirements.

The 1 inch of fish per gallon rule is the dumbest thing ever created.

Maybe you can use them for lighting....maybe. But even then light intensity is not measured in watts, it is measured in lumens. Watts refers to amount of electricity consumed. Efficient bulbs sometimes produce twice as many lumens as some metal halides. A 20 watt bulb with 800 lumens, gives off the same light as a 40 watt bulb with 800 lumens. So....

Pay no attention to rules of thumb, and spend the time to ask the questions. (But never ask your LFS, they will tell you crazy things like that scooter blenny would be a great fish for a new tank).

Teach your cleaner shrimp tricks like rolling over and dying from an overdose of prime.

Make sure you have your tanks covered for extended power outages with things like generators, battery operated air pumps and extra water. Hurricane season.

not sure if this is already listed. 10 page thread is a lot to read when I'm supposed to be working.

Put your ATO on a timer so that it only runs a few minutes at a couple times a day.

Yesterday, My RO reservoir got low and the pump was sucking some air. My GF came home and called me to ask is she should add more RO. I told her yes. When She pulled the reservoir out to fill, she accidentally dislodged the the RO feed tubing from the sump.

She filled the reservoir and walked away, minutes later she heard the pump sucking air again and found the reservoir empty again. Called me back to ask if it should take that much water - I asked, Is the carpet wet? Yepper - Said to pull the plug b/c explaining everything to look for would take too much time. Luckily I was already on my way home and less than 30 minutes away.

Floor was wet - Not bad though, my ATO reservoir is only 2g

so your saying just get a pump and have it pump for a few minutes regularly? That sure would be a nice and cheap/simple ATO, what pump would I use? Also what kind of timer allows you to do only minutes? Do I need a real nice one?

No, this is if you already have an ATO set up. Ideally, the ATO should pump water when the water line gets to a certain level and stop when it gets to another level. However, there is a chance, as yankeereefer stated, that the pump will not turn off and instead will pump all the water (lowering salinity drastically). Since ATOs don't take too long to replace evaporated water, it is a good precaution to make sure the pump can turn on (using a timer) for only a short time every day.

Exactly

My ATO consists of a relay, float switch and a pump (with necessary AC adapters) - See aquahub.com -
Find a digital timer at Lowes/HD, etc. These are capable of having multiple daily settings in increments of 1 min

YR

Great information, thanks to everyone who posted..

FYI, this timer frequently goes on sale for $7. I got like 4 of these and the great thing with them is they do not lose the programming even when you unplug them! unlike thise mechanical timers on 15 minute increments that stops working when you unplug.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/disp...temnumber=95205

it is exactly the same thing as this one
http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~Sea...6vendor%3d.html

funny how the same item becomes more expensive if it is sold to reefers. sort of like the price of a shirt becomes more expensive if sold as a golf shirt.

Being a noob, my advice is to just search. I see way too many noobs posting with questions that have been answered 500 times. The search feature is great on this site and you can even search within posts. This is great on someone tank log because you can easily jump to the page where they talk about the exact same problem your having.

Also read through the tank logs. Steelhlr's is where I started and read that for a week straight, over and over and over until I felt I had a grasp on a sw tank. Reading the tank logs is also a great way to get ideas on rock placements and equipment, especially if you have a AIO and need to know how to turn this in to that or fit this in that chamber.

Would anyone know of a Mac version of a log program to keep track of their parameters?
Thanks

Its call Maquarium and is free just search the apple downloads website...

Thanks, this program will work. Appreciate the help.

No Pistol shrimp !

That's a misleading statement. Pistol shrimp are in general harmless.

+1

These articles on common myths should be read by every reefkeeper, beginner or advanced. Some are just nitpicking or focused on large tanks, but others, like proper cycling, have big implications for success:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-11/eb/index.php
Part one:
Myth 1: Aquarium organisms are often correctly identified and sold by their correct species.
Myth 2: Aquarists commonly keep zooanthids.
Myth 3: Corals do not need to be fed. They get all they need from light.
Myth 4: SPS corals have requirements that include high light and water flow.
Myth 5: The "K" rating of aquarium lamps plays an important role in the coloration of corals.

Myth 6: Corals are colorful because of their symbiotic zooxanthellae.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-12/eb/index.php
Myth 7: Hairy crabs are bad (can eat corals, etc.) and should be removed.
Myth 8: The statement, "but my water quality checks out fine."
Myth 9: Lugol's dips or other commercial dips are useful or prophylactic for treating coral ailments. 
Myth 10: Bacterial infections are common in aquarium corals.
Myth 11: Brown jelly is caused by the protozoan, Helicostoma nonatum.
Myth 12: Aquariums need supplements from the fish store.
Myth 13: The refugium concept.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php
Myth 14: Microbubbles are to be avoided.
Myth 15: Concepts about Nitrification, Stocking Orders, and the New Tank
Myth 17: You can never skim a tank too much.
Myth 18: My aquarium is a reef-crest type tank.
Myth 19: To propagate corals, one should break or cut off a branch or section, and then apply glue or affix the broken fragment to new substrate.

Laks-you are such a wealth of information!! This was really interesting and informative reading.

Thanks, I'm trying to give back as much help as I've received over the years before going back to school. Another tip:

When doing a google search, add the terms "reefkeeping", "advanced aquarist", or "wet web media". You never know when one of those online magazines (or encyclopedia for wet web media) has a good article or FAQs on the subject.

Hello all.


I've been reading these forums for a while and I am ridiculously new to all of this. And some of these acronyms throw my off as I am unfamiliar with them, so would someone be so kind and tell me what they mean?

ATO, CUC....?

There are some others but those two come to mind. I catch on to things pretty fast so I won't be bothering you too long Thanks

ATO = auto top off, this is a device you can buy or DIY (do it yourself). It makes sure as your tank evaporates the fresh water is replaced, keeping the salinity constant

CUC = clean up crew. This consists of livestock that keeps up with tank maintenance. The most popular in this group are snails and hermit crabs.

Good luck!

If you click the information tab at the top left of this page, you will see a helpful glossary. Some terms maybe just too new or actually not reef-related.