sambo123 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 does anybody use http://www.reefrocksrus.com/ Is it ok to use this Link to comment
lanceleaderx Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ---While most of these "rocks" are decent in their attempt to fill this purpose they all fail in the most important area.........NITRIFYING BACTERIA PROMOTION and REEF GROWTH STIMULATION. well yeah the most important part!! Link to comment
Mr. Fosi Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Is it ok to use this I am sure it is ok to use them. Personally, I would still opt for genuine LR and use "Reefrocks" additional filler or base rock. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 ok I have some LR that is very "seeded" in my 20H about 20lbs and about 30lbs of LS I am upgrading to a 55G seahorse tank what would be the absolute cheapest rock to get and would not need to be extensivly cured? also would not put pest in the tank that would hurt the horses? I am also getting 100 lbs of LS any ideas???? Link to comment
mtfish Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 If you are interested in making your own rock check out Garf.org and scroll down to "How to Pages" then "Aragocrete". Link to comment
shaggydoo541 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 The garf site really has some excellent ideas for creating your own LR. I was a bit less imaginative and just found some baserock from a local LFS. Its been in my tank for almost 2 yrs and it is impossible to tell which pieces were base and which were originally LR. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 cool I might do this so all I will need is: -aragonite sand for the styrofoam box and to mold with the cement - Portland cement 1, 2, 3 Which one????? - Water to wash with - White vinegar- can you dilut it in water because wouldnt it take alot of vinegar???? - can I add Biozyme or bacteria to it to kick start it????? will I need as many pounds of sand as I want of finished rock???? thanks Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Heres ya a few helpfull tips if your going to make you some rocks...... espicially the cureing part.......... Also in the 4 years ive been making these rocks we have not found that adding vinager helps shorten the cure time at all........when it comes to cureing unfortunately there are no short cuts(at all) always test it to ensure the ph has dropped and maintains a constant level.......... 1)--To keep from your rocks being very fragile when dried do not get mixture too soupy. If you do you need to add equal amounts of portland and sand to mixture to thicken it up. The mixture should look like its just slightly wet, and holds its shape when you squish it in your hand. If its too wet, youll see a shiney wet look to the rock. It should almost look like its on the verge of being dry. 2)--If making your aragocrete rocks with a lot of large items like crushed coral or oyster shells, then double the amount of portland used and make sure and premix all the items dry before you add water. 3)--You must use portland type 3=FALSE- type 3 portland is only for use in extreme cold areas. It is a fast setting fast high strength yeld portland used in areas where temprature is below 50 degrees F. Any cement when cured slowly will give you significantly stronger structure. If your making your rocks indoors or in the warmer climates you definitly can use portland #1 or #2. It doesnt matter if its gray or white style, they both end up with same results. However if your going to be adding a little colors to your rocks we reccomend the white to help.(grey portland gives a very dark, dark grey appearance in water untill your fauna starts to grow on it) 4)--Need to cure some small pieces- put them in your toilets tank, that way they get a fresh water change every time you flush. Will almost cut your cure time in half. 5)--CUREING TIMES--while this is a subject that will always be different the times we quote will always be approximates. You need to test your rocks pH before adding to your tanks. A-----If you happen to live near the ocean or a large river you can put your rocks in for about 4 weeks(sometimes sooner but not reccomended). When you pull your rocks make sure and do a ph test and ensure the ph is reading below 8.4 Luckily we live on the Gulf of Mexico so this is our choice and have never had any problems.(except occasionally remembering where we put the last batch at) B-----Pool or tub in your backyard- This way takes longer dependant on how often you change the water. But generally speaking approximately 6 weeks. This could be shortend by changing the water daily, or every other day. You also need to put a circulation pump in if using a pool or rather large container. C----- Bucket(indoors)- this way will take the longest for sure- approximatly 8 weeks. If you change the water our daily or every other day you could shorten this time dramatically. D-----Toilet Tank Method- great for those smaller pieces of aragocrete. Approximatly 3weeks dependant on flushing amount.-put your smaller peices in the toilet tank, and each time you flush you get a fresh water change. E-----Everyones water is different depending on where you live. Carbonate hardness, chlorine content, ph level, these are all determined by where you get your water, wether its a well or with the local city system. So dont stress out if yours dont cure in exact same time as someone else's did, everyone will always have variations. Look at it like this, unless you lived in a Lab, no two batches will ever be alike. Always do a ph test before adding your rocks to any tank with live animals in it. We do ours by having a vat of water with predetermined ph and then adding the rock, let it sit for 24 hours, then slowly with your hand stir the water in the vat and do a ph test. If you see little to no change then your set to go. If you use a lot of crushed coral or oyster shells along with your aragonite sand you should end up with a ph level between 8.0 to 8.3 ALWAYS allow your rocks to cure in the mold for at least 48 hours before moving!!! Link to comment
formerly icyuodd/icyoud2 Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 ---While most of these "rocks" are decent in their attempt to fill this purpose they all fail in the most important area.........NITRIFYING BACTERIA PROMOTION and REEF GROWTH STIMULATION.well yeah the most important part!! thats a quote about other companies rocks in the past. bio rocks are surposed to help with bacteria promotion the part you didnt read ---This is where "BioRocks" enters into the equation. While most artificial rock producers work either on nice looks or beneficial additions very few if any made any rock creations to do both...LOOK GOOD and be BENEFICIAL to your REEF. ---"BioRocks" are formed by the carefull mixing of Arogonite, Crushed Corals(reused dead beach washup pcs), Oyster Shells, Cement(our own custom mixture) and our own special "BioMedia" that is encased in the centers of our AquaCultured pieces of "BioRock" to ensure maximum growth area inside as well as the outside surfaces of the "BioRocks". ---These intergrated process have help us create the most advanced manmade ReefRocks that could ever be put into an aquarium enviroment. In fact our makeup of "BioRocks" has generated studies from local and state officials governing Aquaculture Laws pertaining to artificial reef's developement and implementation into the Gulf of Mexico. i have frag plugs made of the same rock in my aquarium (portland cement and arogonite) the more porus the better. i dont think theres anywrong with a healthy mix (60 live/40 fake) of quality live rock and man made rock in the aquarium. i know alot of reefers that have much larger aquariums and have opted for the cheeper fake rock approach. it seems to be working for them. Link to comment
yankeereefer Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Interesting read there - I would be curious to see some examples of LR you produced with your methods. Link to comment
Nyxis Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 There was a really good trial and error diy on RC. If I could search for it and post it I would. I did copy the mix With 4 parts Rock Salt and 1 part Portland Cement Type One (optional 1 part argonite sand), When you start curing the rock the salt will melt out (even from the very center it was pretty impressive) and leave you with a light very porous rock. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 good ideas were do you get the biomedia to put in the rocks? also when you say toilet tank you mean the back part or the toilet isnt there bacteria in there? How do you add color? The salt idea is a good one might add a little to my mix, I plan to use crushed coral and a coarse grain aragonite, and make caves and branches for my seahorse tank. Also would adding biozyme or some other bacteria be a good Idea to help seed the rock? or just a waste of $ ??? thanks will try for some pics when finished, just cant get the camera to post the pictures on the computer!!!!! Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 BioZyme cant hurt anything, could be beneficial to your tank overall as well, but it will do nothing for cureing of aragocrete rock. THE ONLY WAY TO CURE ARAGOCRETE OR ANY CEMENT BASE ROCK IS TIME, TIME AND MORE TIME.....no shortcuts on that part, from anyone in the world, cement just takes its time to cure and no way around it. As for bacteria in the tank portion of your toilet, I guess theres as much bacteria as their is in your tap water. Its the same strait water that comes out of any faucet in your home. Link to comment
travisurfer Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 check out: www.reeferrocks.com amazing rock, its in my 7g hex but hasnt been seeded yet. Link to comment
podBoy Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Very long thread, haven't read it all myself. Found It about a week ago. I think I'm going to try this method. I found GARF about 6 years ago, but I think this beats their methods. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1 Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Dont put them in your oven to cure, thats just inviteing disaster, or close to it. They will be very brittle. The mere use of cement and the way its ment to be cured is a slow moist cureing time, even misting with water after the first 24 hrs makes it up to 50% stronger for the long haul. By baking any cement mixture your removing the water from it prematurely and eliminating the main ingrediant that actually makes cement cure properly. Could also leed to excessive lime leeching during later months. Link to comment
podBoy Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Dont put them in your oven to cure, thats just inviteing disaster, or close to it. They will be very brittle. The mere use of cement and the way its ment to be cured is a slow moist cureing time, even misting with water after the first 24 hrs makes it up to 50% stronger for the long haul. By baking any cement mixture your removing the water from it prematurely and eliminating the main ingrediant that actually makes cement cure properly. Could also leed to excessive lime leeching during later months. Not sure if you're mentioning the baking because that's the way that he did it in the first part of the thread, but yeah. Baking doesn't help. Read through at least half of the thread though before you follow any recipes. The good info is farther on. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 thanks what about How do you add color? also when you say toilet tank you mean the back part or the toilet isnt there bacteria in there? will only tank 3 weeks minimum right? were do you get the biomedia to put in the rocks? will a 55g with 3 extra small gobies and a few corals be ok in a 55g for 3 weeks with 20 lbs of very live rock and 100 lbs of very live sand while the rock cures? sorry for all the ? reeferrocks.com has some great prices! Link to comment
DAMIAN Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 Actually if making the rocks yourself, you cannot get them any where near your tank untill their cured. As for the toilet tank, its as clean as any water in your house. For the colorant, im not allowed to say where it comes from, it took way too long and way too much money to find a safe colorant. They sale it at reefrocksrus though. Ive heard stories of peoples aragocrete starting to grow corraline and small tubeworms in just a few weeks. But of course thats all going to vary depending on the qualities of your exact setup. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 thanks!! might add some color, but when I added some dry rock to my 20H last year it was covered nicly in a matter of weeks so the best way to cure it is to have a fresh water supply going through and circulating it right? so yeh the toilet tank would probably be the best option, but my family has a house in SC on the beach could I take some there and let it cure as well as become live by putting it in a plastic tub with lots of holes and putting a rope onto it to sink it? I could leave it there for probably 6 weeks. If I did this I would have to make some in my toilet tanks also. Anyone Know these answers???? how does reeferrocks get so many holes in theirs??? were do you get the biomedia to put in the rocks? does the rock salt work good? will a 55g with 3 extra small gobies and a few corals be ok in a 55g for 3 weeks with 20 lbs of very live rock and 100 lbs of very live sand while the rock cures? so how much substract and salt and cement should I get if I want to make 35-40 lbs of it???? thanks!!!!! Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 thanks!! might add some color, but when I added some dry rock to my 20H last year it was covered nicly in a matter of weeks so the best way to cure it is to have a fresh water supply going through and circulating it right? so yeh the toilet tank would probably be the best option, but my family has a house in SC on the beach could I take some there and let it cure as well as become live by putting it in a plastic tub with lots of holes and putting a rope onto it to sink it? I could leave it there for probably 6 weeks. If I did this I would have to make some in my toilet tanks also. Anyone Know these answers???? how does reeferrocks get so many holes in theirs??? were do you get the biomedia to put in the rocks? does the rock salt work good? will a 55g with 3 extra small gobies and a few corals be ok in a 55g for 3 weeks with 20 lbs of very live rock and 100 lbs of very live sand while the rock cures? so how much substract and salt and cement should I get if I want to make 35-40 lbs of it???? thanks!!!!! EDIT: didnt mean to post twice, sorry just trying to edit, oops! Link to comment
sephroth_r1 Posted October 11, 2006 Share Posted October 11, 2006 there is a huge point your missing here. from what i understand, you plan on doing all this fake rock, and some live sand? for a seahorse tank? i would say, use real, premeum live rock, as they produce food as well as all the benificial bacteria. and on top of that, your ignoring the fact, it will take you longer to cycle as the fake rock is populated. sorry, but im for the tried and true method. i spend nearly 200 in premeum live rock for my tank, and im much better off, beutiful rock compared to base or fake. Link to comment
sambo123 Posted October 11, 2006 Author Share Posted October 11, 2006 No, I have 20 lbs of completly seeded two year old live rock with lots of pods ect. and about 120 lbs of live sand with lots of pods, all I want to do is make about 40 lbs of homemade live rock then add bioenzyme to themfor a base/ hiches for the horses. This will be ok if I dont plan to majory stock the tank for 3 more months of so to let the other rock seed the homemade rock. I also have about one pound of completly loaded with pods chateo, and 5 lbs of LR rubble and LS for my 20g fuge that is hooked to the 55g. So I dont need to worry about the food or bacteria, some people keep horses without live rock because captive bred horses can live soley off of frozen mysis, and the adding of seeded chateo, water, LR, LS, and Bioenzyme will be far enough bacteria for the tank. also you dont need to cycle the fake rock if it is ph cured and it is added to a semi-established tank with seeded LR/ LS/ ect. Anyone Know these answers???? how does reeferrocks get so many holes in theirs??? were do you get the biomedia to put in the rocks? does the rock salt work good? will a 55g with 3 extra small gobies and a few corals be ok in a 55g for 3 weeks with 20 lbs of very live rock and 100 lbs of very live sand while the rock cures? so how much substract and salt and cement should I get if I want to make 35-40 lbs of it???? Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.