AZ-NO3

[steelhealr]

I'll tell ya..if there are any chemists out there that can figure out a simple PITA-free product that just sucks nitrates out of your aquarium, you could retire easily.

Anyway, I have no intention on buying this product but I AM curious to see if there is anyone out there using it and what their experiences are?

 

For me, water changes, controlled feeding and Algone seem to keep my nitrates for the most part at 10ppm...sometims down to 5-7. Losses and feeding my sun corals are the beast when it comes to brief elevations. Thanks for your input. SH

[apophis924]

I used it a long time ago and it does work very well, But it is just a band aid fix. Once your nitrates are gone you still have to address the issue of what was causing them in the first place. It boils back down to Skimming and or 25% weekly water changes and careful feedings. Since you have sun coral, you have to feed youyr tank a bit more than most of us do. But if you keep up the water changes you can manage your nitrates. granted you might not see zero trates but anything under 10 is good to go. Most corals dont care if it is zero or up to 15 ppm. the key is consistany. a constant level of 10 ppm will do no harm But constant fluxes between zero and ten is a recipe for disaster.

 

I NEVER had a problem with my Nitrates until i started testing for them LOL

[steelhealr]

Good post....thanks. SH

[supernip]

the lfs where i work at swears by it. I've also heard customer experiences with it and they seem promising; but like you, I'm still skeptical. I read the labels and I think it says something about boosting metabolism in the bacteria in your tank. The directions for use seem to also support this... but yeah I'm still skeptical. I'm using it at one of the stores at work, so I'll let you know how it goes.

[steelhealr]

Great...there was another comment on the bottle about what to do if you see 'stress' in the fish, so, keep us posted. I'd be interested to see what your experiences are. SH

[supernip]

well, it worked. took a little while but the nitrates went down a good 0.5 ppm. I reread the bottle and it mentioned something about enzymes. Im not far enough in my chem studies so no guesses on my part. But for what it's worth, you still have to get rid of the ammonia source. I think this could be a good remedy if coupled along side a primary method of exporting the ammonia source.

 

 

PS

It also mentioned the use of a skimmer so I'm guessing either the nitrogen or the oxygen is attached onto the polymer and and exported as part of the surfactant/ colloid. sorry about the pseudo science =(

[NanoDog]

Do you know, I've been thinking about the same thing but from more of a mechanical/biological side.

Nitrates are converted to free nitrogen in anaerobic (sp)/anoxic conditions..... and this may have been done... but

What about a reactor potentially a large one, filled w/ zeolites and fed a slow flow of filtered water? is there enough surface area etc to affect nitrates?

Has anybody tried this?

I think I might give it a go unless somebody can tell me I'm going horribly wrong...

My thought is to get it up and running... 6 weeks at least... test nitrates... then remove it from the system and test in subsequent days...

Not the best methodology but I don't want to get too complicated with this...

[Gwoardnog]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...25&pagenumber=1

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...denitrator+coil

 

Might be a fun reads on denitrator coils.

 

There's also DSB in a bucket thing going on now, where people just fill a 5 gal. bucket with sand and run tank water over it. The bucket acts a nitrate sink. Needs to be replaced every few years or so. Pretty much doing the DSB the way it wasn't mean to be, but done in a way that it is easily taken out/replaceable.

[MrAnderson]

The easiest and most efficient means of removing nitrates is biological.

 

Anything that works via consumable media should be saved for emergencies only, IMO, because there is a curve of adsorption efficiency as a function of time. This stuff will work, but you'll end up having up and down nitrate values as media is cyclically replaced and depleted. It's a binding curve similar to enzyme kinetics for those of you familiar with Michaelis-Menten equilibrium math.

 

There are numerous ways to increase the rate of biological denitrification; I really like the concept behind Gwoardnog's bucket method above. It's basically denitrification in a bucket, but all that bacteria would have to be kept healthy and happy.

[NanoDog]

Thanks!

Bucket Idea is interesting.... I'll check out the links...

[supernip]

do you have a link to the dsb in a bucket? I want to go triple threat on my nitrate problem.

[NanoDog]

do you have a link to the dsb in a bucket? I want to go triple threat on my nitrate problem.

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...threadid=595109

[MrAnderson]

that gets my vote for best idea in reefing for 2005

 

simple works best

[steelhealr]

This post turned fascinating. I cruised over to the link above and a RDSB seems incredibly cheap, simple and sounds like it works. The only problem...as I understand it...is that the bucket has to be higher than the tank.

If you have a sump, I guess the bucket can be placed above the sump and hidden from the main tank. However, if you have a 24G Nano Cube, elevating a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand above the level of the tank seems problematic. Thoughts? SH

[NanoDog]

This post turned fascinating. I cruised over to the link above and a RDSB seems incredibly cheap, simple and sounds like it works. The only problem...as I understand it...is that the bucket has to be higher than the tank.

If you have a sump, I guess the bucket can be placed above the sump and hidden from the main tank. However, if you have a 24G Nano Cube, elevating a 5 gallon bucket filled with sand above the level of the tank seems problematic. Thoughts? SH

 

I was thinking about the same thing... with several conclusions...

 

If it's outside your NC and and not higher than the tank and it's not a closed loop then you need to have overflows on the back...

 

If you have overflows you could put the bucket in a sump under the cube... then the bucket could just overflow into the sump...

 

My bizarre thought is to get a really big canister filter, alter the plumbing to just have water cruise across the top of the canister and back to the tank.. install a ballvalve to regulate flow... but I really don't think you would get enough surface area...

 

I guess you could go sealed bucket, with an inline pump...

Or a poland springs water cooler bottle.. might be easier to seal..

[NanoDog]

Some other interesting ideas... Using Seachem Matrix in a slow filter... (which could be closed loop)

 

 

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...threadid=670356

 

Quote from the Seachem rep....

 

Sorry for not responding sooner as I was away on business travel (trade show season). Matrix is a porous structure that is capable of housing aerobic and anaerobic bacteria if used in the correct manner. If you desire anaerobic bacteria growth (nitrate removal), I suggest using it in a sealed, low flow filter.....like a low flow canister type filter (100 gph or less). If it is suspended in a bio tower like a typical wet/dry filter, the media will be aerobic only and efficiently remove ammonia and nitrite. The same applies (to a degree) if it is sitting in the bottom of a wet/dry filter exposed to oxygen rich aquarium water from all sides. For optimal nitrate removal I suggest a low flow canister as mentioned above. I also suggest using a pre-filter material before the Matrix to prevent it clogging with debris and limiting it's effectiveness. Hope this helps.

 

 

__________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Seachem Laboratories, Inc. www.seachem.com 888-SEACHEM

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[artarmon42]

I'm thinking of filling my "fuge" area (center compartment in photo below) with sand and trying this out. I can probably get the sand up to 8" high.

 

 

Think it'll work?

[sheen]

Hmm Hmmm... I had the same thought after reading about the bucket, namely putting sand in a sump for the same denitrification procedure as the bucket idea. Would this have to be small sand or would lots of crushed coral work as well? I have craploads of crushed coral and who knows, maybe it could come back to use now!

[Gwoardnog]

I think the main point of teh RDSB is the anerobic layers (sugar sized). Crushed coral can't give you that (It'll just trap detrious and leach since it's fairly "flow through").

It's prett much the same concept as the remote DSB in the refugium stuff from the DSB to BB "transitional" period. lol

 

It doesn' much matter about the size of the container as long as the sand is like at least 6" deep. The reason the bucket thing came about, is that it's way easier to pull a bucket and replace it than to replace the bed in a tank/refugium/sump that stays put (all that scooping/vacuming what have you).

[steelhealr]

Wow....a thought for a DIY. What would happen if you removed the LR/chaeto fuge from the middle chamber and altered the openings in the back chambers to run across the surface. The back chambers, if I recall correctly, are at least 16"'s deep. You could fill the entire back middle chamber with sand, alter the baffles to run flow across the top. The bottom would becomea anaerobic.

 

Issues would be:

-depth is good but is the volume of sand enough? remember, we're talking about a bucket of sand vs a chamber

-would rechanneled flow across the top of the middle chamber be too fast and/or enough to keep the levels from dropping; certainly flow at the bottom would be nil and good enough for anaerobic colonization

-how would the rate of denitrification compare to nutrient export by macroalgae

 

Food for thought. SH

[artarmon42]

I'm going to pick up some sand tomorrow and replace my fuge with it.

I'll do some measures and report back.

[steelhealr]

Excellent DIY and this could be a great thread once you start to get results. It would be amazing if you found that this would reduce nitrates enough to do away with a fuge in the middle chamber. Atarmon..make sure you come back to this thread and leave a link to your results. SH

[artarmon42]

Atarmon..make sure you come back to this thread and leave a link to your results.

 

Will do!

I picked up the sand today.

 

Unfortunately, I ran out of Polyfilter, and bought a new filter material (Pura Filtration Pad). Given the change in my filtration system, I'm going to wait two weeks before doing the RDSB, so that I can isolate the changes and impact.

[steelhealr]

I like Pura Pad...I just happened to run out of it. I was using it continuously for a few months. SH

[supernip]

I'm reviving this bad mother because I like the science involved in this hobby. There's a discussion about this product over at RC. er well... sorta just anecdotal info that confirms that it works. Anyhow, here is the

LINK!

 

Casshern= yours truly. Please take my words only as opinions and with a grain of salt. I'm a pretty ######ty chemist. I was hoping one of the better science dorks here could check over what I wrote and maybe fix any bs I have down there/ add info. There seems to be more active science folks around this board, as opposed to their sps forum. Plus a ton of insomniacs. So be a pal and help an '02er out. It can only help improve the conditions of our nanos wink wink nudge nudge

 

+ another wink for how awesome chemistry is.