Jump to content
Innovative Marine Aquariums

Anyone really know?


19jeffro83

Recommended Posts

I want to hear all the theories on how to properly estimate a suitable bioload for all tanks. Where does everyone come up with there proper stocking theories? I'd like to hear from veteran reefers if possible and anyone else with an opinion.

Link to comment

I think managing bio-load just comes down to how much maintenance and equipment you want to invest. So with that there isn't an exact rule, what I have done with my tanks is usually err on the safe side and go with what I know won't max out a tank and slowly raise the bio-load till I start to see signs of my maintenance schedule not keeping up, then decide either to up maintenance or increase bio filtration till things are in check again.

 

As a general rule for myself I start out with about 5 Gallons per inch of fish for the smaller and thinner fish, haven't kept anything particularly large so haven't figured that out yet.

Link to comment

Well, far from a "veteran" reefer, I do have a decent amount of experience.

 

First thing, there is no single theory, rule, or formula to estimate a good bio-load for a tank. But, I believe there is a proper method to figure it out during the tank planning/conception stages.

 

1) You need to decide on what type of tank you want (reef, FOWLR, FO, etc...).

2) Then you need to decide on the amount of time you're willing to devote to the tank, including potential vacations, power outages, etc. Also consider who else in your house is capable/willing to help out.

3) Draft a list of compatible livestock, obviously this will probably be larger than what will eventually inhabit the tank.

4) Once you begin to know what livestock you want, then you need to figure out how to provide the best conditions for that livestock. The best tanks IME are designed around the livestock.. At this point you'll continue to narrow down the choices based on:

 

A) the capacity of your bio-filter. The more rock and the more flow you have, the more livestock you can safely support (in theory). Having a sump allows you to "cheat" in a sense by having more rock and more water volume. Keep reading though as this isn't a free pass.

 

B) your maintenance routine. Will you be doing 10%, 20%, 50%, or some other % water changes every week? Larger water changes mean you'll be removing more waste and so theoretically you can support a higher bio-load. Remember that this is only as long as the water changes are consistent and sufficient. Thinking you can have a high bio-load by doing 50% weekly water changes and skipping it even once could potentially cause a crash. I would call this living on the edge. If you're going to play the overstocking game you need to know your stuff and have a QT set up at all times as well as take proper precautions and have a thorough understanding of the biology of your tank. There are people who get away with this for years though because of their skill and understanding. Filtration, such as a protein skimmer, can help as well but IMO shouldn't be relied upon as a means to achieve a higher stocking level. Skimmers fail, and what then? Unless you have an extra humongous skimmer lying around it doesn't sound like a good idea. Actually this goes for all equipment. Try not to be too reliant on your equipment. If you keep a lighter bio-load you'll survive equipment failures much better (in most cases).

 

C) the requirements of livestock. Ultimately this is what limits us the most IMO. Most marine species are territorial. As the amount of territory diminishes in a tank the aggression rises. As the aggression rises (doesn't even have to be to the point of causing physical harm) the stress rises. As the stress rises fish get weaker and susceptible to disease, and so on. Also remember that you need to feed the fish. The majority of marine fish do best when fed small amounts multiple times per day. We nano-reefers tend to err on the side of feeding too little in an attempt to keep the available nutrients in the water to a minimum. Yet numerous studies have shown that the healthiest fish are fed multiple times per day and this creates a lot of potential waste. Some fish need a lot of rock for foraging. Others need a lot of open water to swim. We as aquarists need to be aware of the natural behaviors of our fish because when we create the proper environment the fish are healthiest and behave naturally.

 

What about corals? Many corals have a small margin of water quality tolerances. Finally there is your CUC. You need a sufficient CUC for your bio-load.

 

In conclusion, people on the forums usually give recommendations to beginners that limit the # of fish they put in their tank. Truth is that this is mostly so the beginner can get a "feel" for the hobby and learn how to react quickly. The survival rates of our animals really needs to increase. We need to get rid of the mentality that we can accomplish whatever goals, dreams, or ambitions we have and get back to understanding the biology of the marine ecosystems we try to recreate. We really don't need to know the max bio-load a tank can support. Sorry this probably isn't the answer you wanted to hear, but it's what I've learned through my own trials as well as those of others who share on the forum.

 

It seems like there aren't very many good discussions on here anymore on the biological aspects of the hobby. We're enthralled in all the new fancy equipment we can buy, or the increased selection of fish that are available, or how LED's look on a tank, etc...

Link to comment

ajmckay -

 

wow...all I can say.

 

I had a decent thread going over here

if ya wanna chime in on that feel free. It's not gear lust or LED related ...lol

Link to comment

So, the short answer is no, you cannot accurately estimate a bio-load.

 

+1 to ajmckay's method of determining the right fish to get

 

Personally, I am not a veteran at all, but I don't think the "bio-load" is the limiting factor. There are ways to handle it. You can use a skimmer or do more frequent water changes, ect. More importantly, and I think ajm hits this on the head, is the fish territory and aggression levels.

 

Now, if you are looking at a tank that only has one type of schooling fish and lots of them, bio-load is going to be your limiting factor. If you pick a fish that is happy with a particular setup, having more of them is not going to cause territory and aggression level increases since they school. That is not to say they won't pick at each other or kill each other, just that if they do it isn't because of territory.

Link to comment

Don't push the limit in your head you know from reading

Logic is king

What looks to be too many fish is

A nano reef tank is about the corals, not the fish.

Link to comment

Good answers. Thanks AJ for the breakdown. I not asking to try and push my bioload. I'm getting into sps lately and trying to run a real lean tank. Just curious where and how people get there opinions on bioload. I see a ton of threads on this topic and a ton of answers.

As for me Im running a 50b 20l sump. I have 9 small fish. The largest being a tailspot blenie. Am I jn the "safe zone" and would I be if I added 2 more small fish?

Link to comment

How much LR do you have. I have a 20 gallon and a 5 gallon sump. I have 27 lbs of LR a Tunze skimmer running and do 2 20% waterchanges a week. I have 5 fish 2 cleaners and 5 sexy shrimp. Along with a ton of corals. My nitrates are usually around 5 but sometimes go to 10. So if you take a waterchange out a week and the skimmer I am sure they would be 20. I think you might be pushing it with 2 more fish and wanting to keep quality SPS.

Link to comment

Started off with 35 lbs of live rock and 30 of dry all seeded now and full of coraline algae.

 

20% water change once a week and running a octopus nws 110.

 

Stocking list is.

3 redspot cardinals

1 spotted mandarin

1 Posum wrasse

1 Dracula goby

1 tail spot blennie

1 Hellfrichi firefish

1 baby false perc

And various decretive shrimp and crabs.

 

Nitrates nitrites and ammonia all 0 on my API test kits. Tank is 8 months old.

Link to comment

I am far from a veteran, but to me the most important is that you would have enough dissolve oxygen for all your fish. For exemple if you have a power outage for a few hours will the fish all die from lack of oxygen? I try to keep my temperature around 75 to avoid this.

 

Second is to be able to process quicly and efficiently their feces without them ending up in a nitrates soup or worse.

 

Third would be to give them proper territory and swimming space to avoid stress and conflicts.

 

There is surely more to it but that's the basic guidance for me and only if I can be sure that these will be respected then I will add another fish. I won't add another fish if nitrates are not in control for sure.

 

I am not sure if there is a rule to evaluate the oxygen consumption? would be interested to see this.

 

 

I want to hear all the theories on how to properly estimate a suitable bioload for all tanks. Where does everyone come up with there proper stocking theories? I'd like to hear from veteran reefers if possible and anyone else with an opinion.
Link to comment

Dani in your opinion what does temp have to do with oxygen levels? My levels are great as far as I know. I think sustainable for at least a few hours in an outage. I feel like my pets have a good amount of room. My most hostile critter which is pretty calm. Is my false perc. He's 1 1/2 long and when he gets to big he gets the boot. All my other fish are so chill and like to share.

Link to comment

well let me start be stating that I'm still a noob, after doing this for a while now.

 

AJ covered almost every thing. but let me add what I can.

 

as to system design my first step is to find the every thing I want list & start weeding things out. the most important aspects here are territory & interaction. this is not just fish, this is everything. coral, inverts, cleanup crew, fish, every thing. once the list is reduced to those which will be good together & fits in the available space together. not the I want it & I don't care if they get along list. again this would include corals. you can move on to the filtration. now heres going to be the part that ever body will find funky. doing water changes means that you ****ed up. water should only come in & out of the tank for the purposes of water chemistry, aka to get that really nice salt you picked up into the tank. if your doing wc to fix things like nitrates then your pushing beyond the systems biofilter. now there are other things to think about as well like whats in the water your taking out of the tank. how much of the biofilter was in that water you just pulled. if 50% of the systems filter is in the water & you do a 20, 30, 50% water change due to trates then how will that effect the tank over the next couple of days. will the bactria & phyto that was making the tank go, be replaced. sure possibly even quickly, but what effect will it have. will it add stress to the tank. now not all tanks will have the water be the majority of the biofilter. but all tanks include the water in the biofilter. this is why wc should not be considered part of the filtration. so now we're thinking filtration, what can we do to improve it. maximize the level of beneficial bactria & phyto in the system. the next thing is to pick a skimmer. again I'm out there a little with some of my thoughts & very biased. but no matter what run a skimmer. sure there's plenty of ways to set up a tank but no mater what skimmers are necessary. can the tank be set up with out it sure. just not what I think. besides waste the skimmer will pull phyto & bactria so the tank will need to be able to supply this at the same rate as its pulled, if not then it needs to be added. as o2 levels this can be watched the ph level so long as the calc & alk levels are constent. but remember that solubility is better in cooler water. thats the actual problem with tanks over heating in the summer, your fish suffocate. the last thing I'll add is that its the bugs that make the tank go. by volume the ecosystem you have setup in that little box has nothing to do with fish or corals. they just happen to live in it & poop all over the place. but by volume your ecosystem is plankton, bactria, & bugs. if there stable & healthy than the bioload is correct.

 

oh & the source for my views is listed in the sand bed thread in my sig.

Link to comment
Dani in your opinion what does temp have to do with oxygen levels?

 

Cooler water has a higher redox value ie. can have more oxygen dissolved in it.

Link to comment
  • 2 weeks later...

there is no such thing as a max bio-load if ur doing things right, like some ppl here said its up to how many you can put in with out it being cramped or killing eachother. iv kept 6 damsels 1 maroon clown 1 dragon wrasse 1 3 inch goby and a cleaner shrimp i fed every other day and did 25% water changes every 2 months in a 20g and had 0 nh4 0 no2 and 0 nitrates in a sps tank id err on the side of safety. 11 lil fish in a 50g is on the side of safety.

Link to comment

While there technically is no real limit (excluding space constraints) due to how evolved some equipment is now or ways you can build a system. However less is always best in terms of stocking any tank. Unless your willing to do extra maintenance then less stocking = less work, less to feed, and possibly less fighting (depending on the fish)

You could technically stock a 10 gallon tank that's connected to the ocean with 20 1 inch damsels if you'd like and feed until the bottom of your tank is filled with fish food for gravel if you wanted since "your" system will take care of it, but I doubt anyone would want to do that.

Link to comment

IMO/IME - There's no way to accurately estimate bioload for 'all' tanks. The old way of thinking is 1" of fish per x gallons. However, we all know that doesn't work. It may serve as a very, very rough guideline but in the end, it's all varies based on species etc. A large portion of bioload will be dependent on the species you are stocking as well as your husbandry. It will also depend on corals in the tank, inverts, LR, sand etc.

Link to comment

there is a finite limit to the bioload of any system. this will be met when the use of the available media has been met by the bactria. combined with the flow through the media having been maximized.

 

these are but some of the factors.

concentration nitrogen generated by the system its self.

rate of nitrogen by the livestock.

rate of nitrogen conversion by the bactria.

size of bactria population present.

size or amount of media provided to the bactia. (surface area in sand & rock)

flow rate through the sand bed, rock, media.

amount of bactrial film present.

environmental crap like temp, gravity, o2...

amount introduced to the tank as food. (uneaten)

 

 

remember the amount of o2 will determine the amount of nitrogen to be moved through the mineralization processes since its really just the oxidation of nitrogen by the bactria population. of coarse it also has to be moved though the different zones of o2 concentration as well.

 

all that really matters is that the rate of nitrogen being produced is equal or less than that which is capable of being processed. other things to keep in mid are the total biomass vs the biomass of the individual livestock. as the biomass is redistributed from a single animal to several the amount of waste produced will increase. assuming that each piece of livestock needs an equal % of there biomass as food, but that this will have an amount which is not capable of being used. the number of animals in crease so does the rate of of waste compared to that of a single animal. hopefully that isn't to confusing. basiclly the effectives of consumption.

Link to comment

lol I always get yelled at for making it to complected. the short answer is. you bread some bactria, you feed you bactria, they make more bactria, your bactria lives. life is good. your bactria dies, life is bad.

Link to comment

Lol. It's cool I appreciate the in depth expalnation it makes sence. Now how to estimate your build up of bacteria and amount it can handle within reason.

Link to comment
Cooler water has a higher redox value ie. can have more oxygen dissolved in it.

 

redox is not what you meant. you meant to say "oxygen is more soluble in cooler water." redox, or oxidation-reduction potential, is an entirely different topic.

 

however, even this is a negligible affect:

 

oxygen-solubility-water.png

Link to comment
Lol. It's cool I appreciate the in depth expalnation it makes sence. Now how to estimate your build up of bacteria and amount it can handle within reason.

 

wait... it is your, future I see. wait it's hazy but can that be diffy Q & calculus. That I see...

Link to comment

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...