ReefBuddy DIY Aquarium Controller $89 Options

[jm82792]

I have to agree,
I was soldering DIP stuff when i was 13.
Well I'll be looking forward to when the code comes out and many other riddles I don't know of that I could implement into my little temperature controller and timer arduino project.

This post has been edited by jm82792: Sep 27 2009, 10:41 PM

[Firewolf4]

Yes,
I did read your reply. And yes this is a low voltage application but that does not prevent shock hazard and/or fire. Ever throw a wrench across a car battery? If you leave it, you have an explosion. So a car battery is way too powerful? Short out a 9V battery with thin wire ( like standard lead thickness) Burn hazard, fire hazard.
What will this device be controlling? Low voltage components? I think not. Standard 120V typical 15-20A circuits
Many users won't have these on CGFI circuits and with line voltage being present, Yes, there is even the potential of death.
I personally have no use for your seething distain and sanctimonium. I dont care if you laid out the IBM 4004 on a breadboard. The AVERAGE builder of this does not have that high of a level of competancy.

Yea.....

Did you bother reading my post before responding?

And LOL at "shock and fire" from a low-voltage SMD processor. Seriously, you really pulled out all the stops on this one. What the hell are you thinking? I'm glad I quoted your shame so it will be enshrined here forever.

[neanderthalman]

...and I don't care for your holier-than-thou elitism and dismissive attitude.

Car batteries explode from a combination of hydrogen production and extremely high short circuit current potential. It's a very different case than a tiny lead getting burned off an SMD component. A pin of that size will be vaporized before it becomes a genuine hazard. There's a reason that low-power, low-voltage circuits are exempt from the code - they simply do not have the reasonable potential for hazard. Pointing out a ridiculous situation that could create a hazard only points out the ridiculousness of the point you're making. If you have to try in order to make it dangerous - then it isn't really dangerous, now is it?

That, and you're implying that you'd have 120v on SMD pins, which is wholly incorrect. You'd be controlling all of your 120V via relays, optocouplers, or triacs, effectively isolating it from the SMD component. They'd all still be DIP.

You've been spouting bullshiat since you first replied, and I'm sorry, but I'm calling you out on it. These are the facts, none of your inflated ego and nonsense. Had you replied with "yeah, it can be done - but I think we're better off with the DIP to make it easier", you would have been both correct, and polite. Instead, you came out with the most dismissive, insulting, and egotistical response you could have possibly come up with. Biatching about reflow and specific thicknesses of eutectic solder? WTF dude.

I think you're doing great work with this controller - but NR doesn't need the attitude - alright?

[mabviper]

Sigh, the only

holier-than-thou elitism and dismissive attitude

I see certainly doesn't come from either one of the developers. At the worst case scenario, soldering smd (voltage regulators, MCUs various ICs, etc) can potentially short VDD and GND with a resistance of say 0.5ohms. At 3.3V, you're already looking at 6.6A and 10A at 5V. Now, let's say your wall adapter can't handle the current load, it can blow and potentially create a fire hazard.

Seriously, these guys are doing a good thing. Let's try to leave all personal things outside the thread. I, for one, can't wait to have access to the hardware and try my hand at open-source software develepment ^^.

[neanderthalman]

Ugh - do you ever wonder why a lot of us don't help out as much anymore? It's this exact sort of thing.

I offered a bit of information that they clearly didn't have. How to solder SMD components at home. Safely. The response? I got spit in the face for my trouble, and this Firewolf character came out with the attitude that he was the only person in the world who knew a damn thing about electricity. There were many ways to handle it, but he was downright rude, and I'm calling him out on it.

In the case you've creatively fabricated mabviper, you'll vaporize the little 0.5ohm bridge long before you overheat the power supply. You've also completely ignored the internal resistance of the power supply in your calculation. As I've already said:

Pointing out a ridiculous situation that could create a hazard only points out the ridiculousness of the point you're making. If you have to try in order to make it dangerous - then it isn't really dangerous, now is it?

This is why circuits powered from a class II transformer, less than 30V and 100VA, are not covered by electrical codes in most jurisdictions - they have insufficient capacity to present a danger to the public. This is precisely the situation on the processor (it has no 120V on it, FYI).

[hcsceo]

I don't really want to get into arguments over design details of the project. This is why I choose to leave the entire project closed until it was complete, as it would just go faster. I believe Neanderthalman is correct on his original post that SMD is possible by the home user and he also understands the reason we choose through hole specifically for this project. In a traditional sense he is also correct that 120v should not come into contact with the controller via the relays because of the isolation with the octocouplers. However, what I believe Firewolf was trying to explain is the potential for firehazard and shock via high voltage and high amps through the tank. Because many people choose not to use GFCI or grounding on their power systems for aquariums the potential for firehazard or shock via a short in a High voltage device in the tank is not only possible but has happened. A broken glass heater, a cut line on a powerhead, potting that is compromised in pumps exposing the leads, or even a light falling into the tank all have the potential to complete a circuit to the controller via the probes in the tank creating a shock or firehazard to the end user via the controller exposing all pins on the processor to 120v. This is one reason pool and fountain controllers are subjected to ETL or UL testing. The same dangers posed to swimmers or users of fountains are identical to the users of aquarium related products. Sadly simple devices required of swimming pools to ensure safety, like GFCI and proper grounding, are not required of aquariums. I'm not saying ETL or UL listing is required for aquarium products (as we know many are not) but it is important to plan for the safety of all using the product well in advance. There currently is a plan in place to submitt this product for ETL certification, which to my knowledge should be one of the first controller products to do this.

If I have been "holier-than-thou" you have my apology, it is important that all constructive dialog is explored so creative juices continue to flow and everyone is happy with the end product and safety is first on our minds.

Steve

[ls7corvete]

Let them argue. Its your design, do what you like. We are all impressed by your work.

[Firewolf4]

I have to agree with Steve, it's not that I'm calling all home builders of this incompetent. On the contrary, I believe many could put 9001 and 9006 soldering standards to shame. But as knowing manufacturing for end users and PCB design therein, I have to look at it from the point of safety first, simplicity second. I've interviewed enough technicians over the years to never believe that everyone can solder.
So I believe this could be made with SMD's, definitely. Do I expect to hear of multiple problems due to SMD? I think that goes without saying. So for now, lets get the unit functioning with through hole and then we can start looking at an SMD version.
I really don't feel I have to comment in regards to the "holier - than- thou" attitude aside from saying I have my own personal reasons leading my decisions.

[M@rine_lover]

Can't wait to see the end product lol !

Any update ?

[hcsceo]

No updates right now. Firewolf is working on the final PCB layout and I'm getting the CNC tweaked to mill the boards. I do have some artwork for the logo design. Let me know what you think.



This post has been edited by hcsceo: Oct 2 2009, 11:13 AM

[NeveSSL]

Ha! I love it! Especially being a diver.

Brandon

[evilc66]

Nice.

[davidr2340]

That's an awesome logo bro... I LIKE IT!!!

[1337TANKHAX]

Hah I dig the logo. It's good to see that this project is beginning to come full circle finally!

[theatrus]

Looking forward to seeing this in action. I had my own abortive attempt at this project awhile ago which I never did get around to finishing: http://www.opencoral.com/

And hello everyone, new member on Nano-Reef. My 90gallon of course does not qualify as a nano

[basser1]

Looking forward to seeing this in action. I had my own abortive attempt at this project awhile ago which I never did get around to finishing: http://www.opencoral.com/

And hello everyone, new member on Nano-Reef. My 90gallon of course does not qualify as a nano

WELCOME...... ........ But you can post your tank in the Large Reef Tank section!!


BTW....... Any updates?? It's been a while!

This post has been edited by basser1: Oct 11 2009, 11:00 AM

[Milamber]

I just found my way back to this forum after a few years because of this topic.
I really hope this project keeps going forward. It sounds like it has huge potential.

I'm one of those soldering noobs...never had a reason to touch a soldering iron especially since most electronic products are practically disposable now.

Are those "cold" soldering irons okay for this type of work?

[evilc66]

Invest in a real soldering iron. Those cold heat irons work for really small stuff, but once you are starting to put something like this together, you want something a little more appropriate.

[Daemonfly]

Well, hopefully it won't be too much longer, I'd deffinitely buy one.

As for soldering irons, the cheap radio shack ones can get you by for a few small projects, at least, but in the past, some models got a bit too hot, so you had to be careful about how long you held the iron to the solder point.

[hcsceo]

Sorry guys the PCB design is taking a bit longer than I expected. The space we have to work with in the box and the desire to keep the project buildable via true DIY (ie toner transfer, chemical etching at home) has slowed us a bit. With the redesign of the processer and space issues associated with the box and dip construction we have had our work cut out for us. We are working on it and it will get done soon.

Like Evil said, cold solder is really not a good idea. That product makes a great commercial but doesn't transfer well to PCB work. A standard cheap 40watt Iron from radio shack should work OK, and I hope to build one in the assembly video using one to show it can be done. Every IC is socketed so overheating should not be a factor when building it. We are using 10mil traces and 12mil spacing so solder points shouldn't be so close that soldering is an issue. I use a variable heat Weller and love it but would never expect people to buy one just for this project.

Anyway, stay tuned it IS coming, LOL.

Steve