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Cultivated Reef

The Next Step in DIY LED Lighting


evilc66

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I figured that for my 2000 post, I would put something out there that could be pretty interesting for a lot of people. At least, this will be a better post than going into the Lounge and posting "Yay, it's my 2000 post!"

 

Most of you know me as one of the go-to guys when it comes to LEDs. I've been doing this now for a little while, and we have had some great discussions on the technology, and where it's headed in terms of aquaria. After a few of us set foot into relatively uncharted territory, some more have followed and if it's any indication by the sheer number of LED projects that have been started in the last few months, there are many more to come. But I think we are at a point now that we need to take things a little further. Start getting closer to what the big boys have (PFO and AI).

 

Over the last few weeks, NanoReefGuy, DarkDevil and myself have been discussing something that could be quite revolutionary in the DIY front. And that would be, an open source LED controller.

 

So whats this open source I talk about? This is an innitiative that was started years ago to make parts or the whole of a design open to the public to use, modify and evolve. A perfect example of this has been the Linux operating system. It's also something that with the help of some talented people, could create a fantastic platform for the creation of very feature rich LED systems that people create themselves.

 

So why do this? Using dimmable drivers and lamp timers only gets you so far. And for most, it's more than enough. But there is always that comparison of the DIY setups to the manufactured units. Some of the features utilized by these systems can be useful, like having the timers built in, fade in and out for dusk/dawn effects, protection of the system from temperature, etc. That would be great to get it on par with that. But what if we could take it further?

 

So thats really the point behind starting this thread. To start getting ideas from the people who are actually looking to use something like this. We are looking to see what kind of features will be genuinely usefull, and which are just fluff. I don't want this to get into a discussion about "you should make it this way". I want the discussion to be about how this will be beneficial, and why you would want these features. Keep things open and loose. We have a lot of flexibility here with the hardware.

 

Speaking of hardware, and getting this into the hands of the public. We are looking to use a simple controller platform as the basis for this system. We are structuring it around the following features:

 

  • Low Cost (less than $100 for the base unit)
  • Easy to use
  • Simple to program, but powerful enough for the advanced user
  • Modular so the system can be expanded

 

We want this to be easy for people to get the most out of. But we also want this to be able to grow. With the potential for modularity, we could see some unique controllers as different as the fixtures they will be built for.

 

So lets hear it. What do you want to see? What would be useful to you? Please keep the conversation civil. We are trying to advance things in the hobby, and don't need a war going on in this thread. Let us know what you think.

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congrats on your 2000Th post

something that would be useful would be a acclamation mode for new coral this could be very useful for not bleaching coral cumming from a lower light tank . i have no ideal how this would be accomplished but you mentioned a fade-in so could this be strung out over a set period of time? (IE :days) and remember where it left off until it achieves full power to the LEDs .

it would be cool to have as a feature.

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^^^ Well, please define affordable then. Because as far as I can see, high power LEDs are no where need affordable for general public, that's why people wants it, but still don't wanna touch it. But you brought up a good point, for people who cannot or simply don't want to DIY, what would you like to see if someone else can do it for you? I mean what is the most challenging part for you is?

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Really cool idea with the open source controller. One thing that you guys might want to consider when deciding on an MCU are the number of hardware PWM controllers/outputs. In power applications such as LED lighting, fan speed controllers or even Tunze DC diy controllers, you'd need pulse width modulation. With microcontrollers, you can do software PWM but hardware PWM is just easier and less complicated in the long run.

 

I can't remember which diy project had a real-time clock chip (it might be RC but i can't remember) but having an internal real-time clock in the MCU is pretty awesome. Like you said, dusk/dawn effects would be amazing to implement but w/o a real-time clock, it's going to be very inaccurate, time wise.

 

I think to make it simple to program, I would leave out the MCUs the need assembly language. I think a C compiler is pretty standard for the newer chips.

 

DIY LED lighting has always interested me even though I don't have a nano reef... (o.o/ I'm always in the planning stages, never the execution, lol. I want to help out with what you guys are doing. I dont' have an extensive experience with MCUs. However, I do know Microchip PIC24 MCUs well. Googling PIC24 eval board, I found this PIC24 Eval.

 

By no means I'm saying you get that~ one ^^ but it's a suggestion.

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very intersting, but i think it is going to be very hard to find something.

 

hmmm. maybe just take a normal dimmer (the knob type), put a gear on it, and use a slow moving motor and gear to turn the dimmer up, but i can't really think how to make it go down, unless you can reverse the motor.

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I'm glad to see some interest in this. DarkDevil, NRG and I have been pretty excited about getting this started.

 

A lot of the hardware issues can be easily solved. One of the biggest things we wanted to accomplish was to make the system modular, physically. One of the easiest ways to do this will be to use a bus of some description, whether it be I2C, SPI, LIN, or some other protocol. I2C makes a lot of sense as there is a lot of hardware that supports this protocol, including real time clocks, flash storage, temperature sensors, and LCD displays. I'm not saying this approach will be perfect, but it will allow a far easier way to just tack on modules. This will also give us the ability to use a slightly less feature rich controller that may be easier for the amature to program. I for one fall into that category :)

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I think it should have a fish disco effect for when you dose your tank with somethin funky!

 

Seriously though, I think a progressive fade effect woould be something interesting (better for long tanks) where as time goes by, the highest intensity of light fades across the array (think of the sun over the ocean at different times of day). You'd probably have to have alot of buckpucks to pull that one off.

 

I think thermal protection is a no brainer, you could even make it ramp up fan speed depensing on the temp of the array. I have no idea how these things are programmed, so I also have no idea what they are capable of.

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Evil, I don't know much about hardware configurations or even the LED lights you have been making, but as a computer science major, I would love to help you out if at all possible with this project! I love supporting open source projects and this would be a great mix of programming and aquarium time.

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Maybe it could be "setup" on the computer after someone makes a GUI program

Like a Check Box and Value based program that any joe can use.

And obviously make it so people can implement more code.

I've tried to learn programming but well it doesn't work :(

I can offer my computer modeling skills,I can do pretty good models

that you can use for whatver (from blender).

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The continuos fade idea is nice, but might be a little hard to implement. We have to make it easy for anyone to hook up, and that could be a wiring nightmare. It's not to say that the LED groups could be widthwise as opposed to lengthwise. Could be done that way. Interesting idea.

 

Jewbilee, this will be something great for you to tinker with. Once we have a base configuration sorted out, you will be free and clear to add whatever you want. Hopefully we will be able to structure it so that you could submit the feature and it would be somewhat painless for others to integrate.

 

jm82792, base features will be easy to get to and adjust, whether it be through a computer (but not necessarily a seperate program), or a display and keypad. This is something we are still trying to decide on how to implement.

 

This is great guys. Keep it coming.

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If you are looking for simplicity of programming, may I recommend the picaxe line of microcontrollers. They are programmed in a langauge very similar to basic, have ADC's, and can be linked together (I think). They are fairly cheap 5-10 dollars depending on the variety you choose and require only a serial cable (or USB to serial) to program.

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should be C/C++ based

 

for people that have questions about what it will look like basically, please check out my LED built thread. it will look something similar but different PIC controller with added functions and expandability.

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I think this is awesome. My expertese is not so much in R&D when it comes to electronics, but I do have bit of business mindset. So my advise is for you down the road in your project. If/when all this comes together and you feel you have an marketable product, offer it in two ways to the public: as a plug and play option as well as a DIY option. Much like nanocustoms does with their systems. It will appeal to more reefers.

 

I appologize if I am getting too ahead of you in this but I think you are on to something. My boss would remind me of the scene in Applo 13 when the astronauts are running out of O2, and they are bickering about something irrelevant at the time. And Tom Hanks' character tells them to shut up, and say "there are 679 thing that need to go right for us to get home, and we're on step 18. So lets not worry about step 457!" You get the point, but atleast keep the above in mind.

 

I must say this is GREAT for the hobby, no doubt about it. Best of luck.

 

Cheers,

Nick

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I don't know how much I should say or should not say, but we are trying NOT to make a product "for sale", it's basically something that will benefit people who wants to get into LED lighting and/or controller with basic or no electronic/computer background. if we are really making this a profitable product, we would have gone a totally different way and piece the components very differently.

 

what evilc66 is asking is that, what features YOU would like to see if we can offer a setup like this, how much you are willing spend. so don't you guys worry about how to market and how it is packaged, it's going to open to public and hopefully everybody can afford it as well. we are going to provide the building blocks and you still have to put it together yourself, but hopefully it will be as simple as ABC.

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Because LED's are comperable to the gold standard (metal halide) of the hobby, the price should be competitive to it as well.

 

This is how I justified my build on my 12g nano.

A plug and play clamp on 150w MH - $300

DIY 70w retro - $400

Plug and play LED - $700-800

 

So when I priced my DIY project out to ~$200. it was worth it.

 

For larger tanks and fixtures I don't know if it is still worth it. There is always 'economy of scale' but that only usually applies to aquiring supplies and production.

 

Nick

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K I just read the first post so these are probably reposts:

 

Moon Cycles (full/Half/no) I've heard that coral respond to this when it comes to spawning

Plenty of adjustment options I wanna be able to control entire banks down to a single array.

 

-pinner

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Must-have features:

Able to control lamps on/off by clock

Open source and modular in design

Does not require a comp sci or EE degree to customize/tailor to needs

comparable cost to MH set ups

controller should be small in size (not large/bulky, although that can be a future improvement)

AC power

 

Cool features:

lunar control

acclimation cycle(s)

dawn to dusk simulation capability

dimmability

LED color adjustment(?) - I don't even know if this is possible. perhaps some kind of "K" rating to adjust to your visual wants?

LCD user interface to program (or via cable to computer as well)

battery backup

 

Future nice-to-have:

DST tracking/adjustment (hey, i'm lazy).

Synchronize to atomic clock ( :D ) - if a wall clock can do it...

 

 

My .02 from business work I do is don't try to do too much at first - try to get a stable, modular platform to work off of, then add in the features you want to. But it is nice to have some longer term goals in mind (especially when planning hardware). Hence why I broke up the "must haves" and the "nice to have" features. If you focus too much on the nice to haves, which are by far the cool and fun ones to work on, you may overlook some of the important and key design features. GL and HTH.

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Try not to compare this cost wise to MH. Remember, this is just for the controller to add more features to your DIY LED fixture. It will integrate the drivers, but the LEDs will be left up to you which is usually the bulk of the cost.

 

MSU Fan, when you say battery backup, what do you mean by that?

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By reading MSU Fan's post, I just thought of couple points. If we are going to incorparate LCD into the controller, all the basic settings can be done on there, people don't really need to get into the main code and do anything. So the code language choice doesn't really matter anyways. I mean, it will still be open source, but for people don't care much about coding, they never have to learn anything; but for people that knows how to program, you know assembly right? :D

 

I wonder what MSU Fan mean by battery backup also, do you mean backup for settings? or do you mean backup as in using batteries to power the LEDs. backup for settings is easy and have been considered already, but batteries to power the LED, now that's an interesting thought. I think that's something we can discuss, we can have a setting that use couple 9V batteries and run the lights at 30-50% intensity. So in case of a power failure, the aquarium won't be totally darkness forever... hmm....

 

Otherwise everything in his post are considered already.

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I would still make the programming platform accesable to the beginner. Developing for a system like this gives much more encouragement to try as you can instantly see the results, unlike a lot of other hobby developement setups where you actually have to build something to see a result. I see this as a good entry level point for people to dive into programming.

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