GU10 LED Build Thread (Chinese Ebay Lights)

[TinyGiant]

Hey tinygiant, I just got a 150g tank and its 2ft deep. Is that too deep for these leds?

 

Also, did a little searching on ebay and came across some 6w gu10's. Are they worth it?

 

 

the 2ft depth is fine my 55g is around 22" tall. 24 isnt going to make a huge difference.

 

 

I would honestly stay with the 3w. just get the epistar ones i posted in the OP. the 4w 6w.. etc burn hotter in most instances which will in turn make them have a shorter lifespan.

 

I have some 4w ones and the last epistar ones that i ordered which were only 3w were way brighter.

[mangoman]

the 2ft depth is fine my 55g is around 22" tall. 24 isnt going to make a huge difference.

 

 

I would honestly stay with the 3w. just get the epistar ones i posted in the OP. the 4w 6w.. etc burn hotter in most instances which will in turn make them have a shorter lifespan.

 

I have some 4w ones and the last epistar ones that i ordered which were only 3w were way brighter.

 

Thanks

 

Do you think 300w of led is enough to grow sps/everything else?

[TinyGiant]

whats the foot print of the tank?

 

 

i say a 50/50 row for every 12" of foot print is ideal

 

so i have a 55g with a row of 22 then a couple extras to spot light some sections

 

if i had a 75g i would do two rows of 22 spaced about 8 inches from each other ..

 

 

etc. bascially my formula is tank width divided by two minus two. for each row

 

then a row for every 12in of width. so 12 would get one row, 18-24in would get two rows. 24-36 would get three rows..

 

 

seems to work well with blend and brightness that way

 

 

 

and yes 300w should be fine. I have 90w over my 55 with excellent color and growth

[mangoman]

whats the foot print of the tank?

 

 

i say a 50/50 row for every 12" of foot print is ideal

 

so i have a 55g with a row of 22 then a couple extras to spot light some sections

 

if i had a 75g i would do two rows of 22 spaced about 8 inches from each other ..

 

 

etc. bascially my formula is tank width divided by two minus two. for each row

 

then a row for every 12in of width. so 12 would get one row, 18-24in would get two rows. 24-36 would get three rows..

 

 

seems to work well with blend and brightness that way

 

 

 

and yes 300w should be fine. I have 90w over my 55 with excellent color and growth

 

I think i'm following you

 

The tank has a 10ft^2 foot print. 5ft by 2ft by 2ft.

 

So you would reccomend 3 rows of 28 bulbs?

[TinyGiant]

yeah that should do it

[mcarroll]

Got my initial order of bulbs, but haven't had time to do more than build a 2x2 bulb prototype in order to finally see them on and to take some Kill-A-Watt numbers.

 

Color on the Blue bulbs is as described in this thread - freaking nuclear. Almost too blue, IMO, and I'm a dedicated 20K halide guy. We'll see when I have a second (functional) prototype built and can get better blending. My untested thoughts at this point are that a much wider-than-30º spread on the Blues would be advantageous.

 

Interestingly, the daylight bulbs alone - at least to my eye - are beautiful. Certainly more akin to what we regard as 10K or even a 12K than what we think of when we think "Daylight" or "6.5K". I've certainly seen my share of 10K's that look much more yellow/less actinic than this. I'm strongly considering doing a daylight only setup. Again, we'll see once I have a functional prototype to see in action.

 

Also sorta interesting are the power numbers.

 

A single Blue pulls 2 watts...very infrequently kicking the meter up to 3 as they run. Also reads 6 volt-amps

 

A single Daylight bulb reads a steady 3 watts and 6 volt-amps.

 

In a 4 bulb array power use may be a bit more clear: 4 Blues take 12 watts/20 volt-amps; 4 Daylights take 14 watts/22 volt-amps. This gives them a Power Factor of around 60-65%. This means for a 100 watt array of GU10's (about 28 bulbs), you should size your wiring/breakers/fuses for a 160 VA load. (Still small, but good to be aware of.)

 

-Matt

 

P.S. The Warm Whites are butt-ugly. Do not attempt to put these over your reef. U - G - L - Y! They look great in other areas of the house though! :-)

Edited February 15, 2012 by mcarroll

[mangoman]

I can't seem to find anyone that sells the blue leds in larger quanities (5 or 10). I was able to find the whites in quanities of 10 for around $2.80 ea and was hoping I'd find the same on the blues..

 

Should I go with a 60/40 w/b then to save on costs?

 

edit: after reading the above post, should I switch to 70/30 and switch to some of the blues with the 20 tiny bulbs rather than the 3 x 1w?

Edited February 15, 2012 by mangoman

[mcarroll]

edit: after reading the above post, should I switch to 70/30 and switch to some of the blues with the 20 tiny bulbs rather than the 3 x 1w?

 

I think because this is something so subjective that it is going to be tough for us to tell you.

 

You should place a test order for a few Daylights and a few Blues (plus sockets) and build a prototype like I did.

 

I never would have guessed in a million years that the Daylight bulbs would look this good without seeing them in person. (Then again, I haven't constructed a real light to see the blending I get with a single-file row of B:W:B:W lights. This may look even better.)

 

I will also say that $2.80/bulb is a steal - even in quantity. At that price it would be hard to say you went wrong starting out all daylight even if you end up needing to place a second order later to "blue things up" to your liking. At least IMO. (If you have the budget, do both up front to save time...someone here will most likely buy your un-needed Blue bulbs if that happens.)

 

-Matt

 

P.S. Many of the GU10 vendors advertise that they will give a volume price if you contact them directly - they just don't maintain listings for them all the time. Try writing to your favorite(s) and see what price they can come up with.

[mangoman]

Could you take a picture of your test? Would help a lot

 

Currently I'm running 14k halides so I think I may do as you said and start with all whites..

 

Here's the cheaper leds.. do they look ok?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260956550610?ssPag...984.m1423.l2649

[TinyGiant]

Could you take a picture of your test? Would help a lot

 

Currently I'm running 14k halides so I think I may do as you said and start with all whites..

 

Here's the cheaper leds.. do they look ok?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/260956550610?ssPag...984.m1423.l2649

 

 

those are 12v ones.. i wouldnt go that route

 

the links in my original post are the best bulbs i've found so far and they are only like 4.50ea. way brighter and clearer than the others i've ordered in the past

[mangoman]

those are 12v ones.. i wouldnt go that route

 

the links in my original post are the best bulbs i've found so far and they are only like 4.50ea. way brighter and clearer than the others i've ordered in the past

 

 

Ok, thanks. just wondering, why avoid the 12v?

[TinyGiant]

you would need to have a 12v power supply.. its just easier using a straight plug. you wont have to worry about making sure you have enough Ma on the line.

[mcarroll]

way brighter and clearer than the others i've ordered in the past

 

Would be interesting to see with a Kill-A-Watt or multimeter if brighter = more power usage. It would make sense - but how much more? (Ditto for the other bulbs: 4x1,3x2,2x3)

 

I was thinking of also getting a cheapie Lux meter off eBay or Amazon to add some more objective numbers to the comparison. (Should at least do a good job measuring the Daylight bulbs.)

 

Tiny, you should see if anyone nearby to you or maybe in your club has one or both kinds of meter - it would be awesome to have some numbers to compare. :-)

 

-Matt

[mcarroll]

Could you take a picture of your test? Would help a lot

 

Not the greatest pictures, but this should give you some more idea of how things go. (See attachments.)

 

On a related note, it seems worth pointing out that the price for GU10 sockets appear to be very consistent. If you find some for less than average price chances are you are going to be getting less. From what I have seen, they will have smaller diameter and/or shorter leads connected and/or have a so-called low-profile socket instead of a full socket. Options besides the low-profile socket aren't immediately evident from the product photos but "usually" listed in the text description.

 

The lead differences may not matter to you, depending on how you are making your connections (Tiny's melt/wrap procedure doesn't care) and how you are laying out the lights. If you are using quick connectors, the thinner leads are too thin to be matched up with typical extension cord or house wiring (usually between 12 and 16 gauge, or 1.3-3.3mm). For example, my sockets ended up having wire of 0.5mm² cross sectional area, which is a little less than 20 gauge (extension cords are typically 16 gauge these days), and they are only 3" long instead of 6".

 

Not a huge deal as they do work, but I will be shooting for 6" leads of at least 0.75mm² (between 18 and 19 gauge) cross sectional area on my next purchase.

 

Quick connectors are usually able to work with ranges of wire gauge like 16-18 or 18-22, so both cables being spliced have to match that range spec.

 

-Matt

 

P.S. FWIW, I haven't decided how I'm doing my socket connections yet. extension cord wire does not burn away like in Tiny's example, so if that's what you're using - find another method. :-) I stripped manually - no way that works for (e.g.) 60 connections though. I did finally learn to solder (excellent and

), so if I can find a fast way to strip, I might solder/heat-shrink everything. Or I may end up using standard project wiring from Radio Shack/home store, in which case melt-solder seems like an OK option. (Twisting and wrapping with tape would be a little risky IMO unless your installation is tucked into a wall or something like Tiny's. On an exposed fixture, an accidental bump of a bulb or jerk on a cord in theory could bring an open to a wrapped connection like that fairly easily.)

 

P.P.S. So far, quick connectors seem a pretty expensive proposition (30 bulbs = 60 connections = 60*$0.50 = almost 1/3 the cost of my lights just for connectors!). At that cost are they worth it on anything but very small installations? Anyone? (I've got a 72x24 tank coming up to make a fixture for - that'll be a lot of connections!)

Edited February 16, 2012 by mcarroll

[TinyGiant]

Not the greatest pictures, but this should give you some more idea of how things go. (See attachments.)

 

On a related note, it seems worth pointing out that the price for GU10 sockets appear to be very consistent. If you find some for less than average price chances are you are going to be getting less. From what I have seen, they will have smaller diameter and/or shorter leads connected and/or have a so-called low-profile socket instead of a full socket. Options besides the low-profile socket aren't immediately evident from the product photos but "usually" listed in the text description.

 

The lead differences may not matter to you, depending on how you are making your connections (Tiny's melt/wrap procedure doesn't care) and how you are laying out the lights. If you are using quick connectors, the thinner leads are too thin to be matched up with typical extension cord or house wiring (usually between 12 and 16 gauge, or 1.3-3.3mm). For example, my sockets ended up having wire of 0.5mm² cross sectional area, which is a little less than 20 gauge (extension cords are typically 16 gauge these days), and they are only 3" long instead of 6".

 

Not a huge deal as they do work, but I will be shooting for 6" leads of at least 0.75mm² (between 18 and 19 gauge) cross sectional area on my next purchase.

 

Quick connectors are usually able to work with ranges of wire gauge like 16-18 or 18-22, so both cables being spliced have to match that range spec.

 

-Matt

 

P.S. FWIW, I haven't decided how I'm doing my socket connections yet. extension cord wire does not burn away like in Tiny's example, so if that's what you're using - find another method. :-) I stripped manually - no way that works for (e.g.) 60 connections though. I did finally learn to solder (excellent and

), so if I can find a fast way to strip, I might solder/heat-shrink everything. Or I may end up using standard project wiring from Radio Shack/home store, in which case melt-solder seems like an OK option. (Twisting and wrapping with tape would be a little risky IMO unless your installation is tucked into a wall or something like Tiny's. On an exposed fixture, an accidental bump of a bulb or jerk on a cord in theory could bring an open to a wrapped connection like that fairly easily.)

 

P.P.S. So far, quick connectors seem a pretty expensive proposition (30 bulbs = 60 connections = 60*$0.50 = almost 1/3 the cost of my lights just for connectors!). At that cost are they worth it on anything but very small installations? Anyone? (I've got a 72x24 tank coming up to make a fixture for - that'll be a lot of connections!)

 

 

 

on the first page i show how i do the wire twisting. and how I quickly strip the wires too.

 

i was able to make a 20bulb setup in less than an hour and just used shrink wrap and a lighter. Click the 33gallon side of my banner in my sig and you can see what i did.

 

I will say the electrical tape that i used on my original hood on the 55g as come unraveled in spots. Probabaly just from being warm. I plan on doing some repait and possibly just silicone all the connections. I really dont feel like undoing the whole chain

[C.I._Reefer]

P.P.S. So far, quick connectors seem a pretty expensive proposition (30 bulbs = 60 connections = 60*$0.50 = almost 1/3 the cost of my lights just for connectors!). At that cost are they worth it on anything but very small installations? Anyone? (I've got a 72x24 tank coming up to make a fixture for - that'll be a lot of connections!)

 

I'm not sure exactly what you a referring to, but i just use crimp-able butt splices for this application. Seems to work well enough, and they are cheaply had.

[afboundguy]

Just chiming in with a quick question and update on my lights. I'm running 8 white (about 50/50 cool and warm white) and 8 blue. Had these lights on my 25 cube since June/July 2011 and liking them so far. Got some pretty good growth out of the SPS and just love how some of the LPS look when just the blue lights are on

 

I did have a quick question about if these are dimmable at all? I'm purchasing an Apex within the next few weeks and if it's possible to dim them for cheap money I'll go for the full Apex. I just have them spliced into a normal power cord with 8 bulbs on each cord. TIA...

[TinyGiant]

they arent dimmable unless it was stated on the listing. some of the vendors sell dimmable ones. if you try to dim these they just shut off when the voltage gets lower than required to run them. sometimes the flicker really fast too.. probably not the best for the powersupply thats in them

[wesleyuk]

very interesting thread!

 

i got old river reef 94l in shed and i'm in middle of re-starting this tank now. (cleaning all equipment)

 

i got biggest issue with this tank.........lighting.

 

2 x 55W power compact, both 10K, very very yellow. and it's extremely hard to source for white/blue ones. so i decide to go for LED.

 

i got 2 options with the tank, sump it or not. if sump it then the rear-sump will be removed which will give the tank more room.

 

how many LED's and blue/white ones and formations?

 

LxWxD, without sump - 20" x 13.5" 18.5"

with sump - 20" x 17" x 18.5"

 

also how high the LED's should be hang above the water level?

 

i read somewhere, there are few ways to reduce colour spotlight and disco ball effect is increase the height and move all LED's closer each others - is that true?

 

many thanks

[TinyGiant]

yeah keep them in tight rows.

 

 

i would say 8-9 bulbs wide two rows

 

so a total of 16ish

 

unless that second number is the width .. then 9 bulbs should do the trick

 

add more if you feel like it 9 would be the minimum

Edited February 16, 2012 by TinyGiant

[wesleyuk]

sorry for the confusion,

 

L = left to right

W = front to back

H = you know

 

not sure those are same in the UK lol

 

also, what did you mean by wide two row?

 

and how high?

 

thanks again

 

sumped one is almost 'cube'. i'm actually thinking of 4 x 4

[TinyGiant]

usually about 10" high is fine if you make tight rows. blending is perfect that way

 

 

click on the left side of my sig to see my latest build and you can see what i mean about the rows.

 

i was saying two rows of 9 bulbs

[mangoman]

Not the greatest pictures, but this should give you some more idea of how things go. (See attachments.)

 

On a related note, it seems worth pointing out that the price for GU10 sockets appear to be very consistent. If you find some for less than average price chances are you are going to be getting less. From what I have seen, they will have smaller diameter and/or shorter leads connected and/or have a so-called low-profile socket instead of a full socket. Options besides the low-profile socket aren't immediately evident from the product photos but "usually" listed in the text description.

 

The lead differences may not matter to you, depending on how you are making your connections (Tiny's melt/wrap procedure doesn't care) and how you are laying out the lights. If you are using quick connectors, the thinner leads are too thin to be matched up with typical extension cord or house wiring (usually between 12 and 16 gauge, or 1.3-3.3mm). For example, my sockets ended up having wire of 0.5mm² cross sectional area, which is a little less than 20 gauge (extension cords are typically 16 gauge these days), and they are only 3" long instead of 6".

 

Not a huge deal as they do work, but I will be shooting for 6" leads of at least 0.75mm² (between 18 and 19 gauge) cross sectional area on my next purchase.

 

Quick connectors are usually able to work with ranges of wire gauge like 16-18 or 18-22, so both cables being spliced have to match that range spec.

 

-Matt

 

P.S. FWIW, I haven't decided how I'm doing my socket connections yet. extension cord wire does not burn away like in Tiny's example, so if that's what you're using - find another method. :-) I stripped manually - no way that works for (e.g.) 60 connections though. I did finally learn to solder (excellent and

), so if I can find a fast way to strip, I might solder/heat-shrink everything. Or I may end up using standard project wiring from Radio Shack/home store, in which case melt-solder seems like an OK option. (Twisting and wrapping with tape would be a little risky IMO unless your installation is tucked into a wall or something like Tiny's. On an exposed fixture, an accidental bump of a bulb or jerk on a cord in theory could bring an open to a wrapped connection like that fairly easily.)

 

P.P.S. So far, quick connectors seem a pretty expensive proposition (30 bulbs = 60 connections = 60*$0.50 = almost 1/3 the cost of my lights just for connectors!). At that cost are they worth it on anything but very small installations? Anyone? (I've got a 72x24 tank coming up to make a fixture for - that'll be a lot of connections!)

 

 

Thanks for the info and the pics

 

Please keep us up to date, its nice having someone with a similar sized project!

I'm still trying to find cheaper bulbs.. would like to have this whole fixture done for under $375

 

I'll keep everyone posted as to how this works out..

 

 

On a somewhat related note, whats your opinion on this for my refugium?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220953396822?ssPag...984.m1423.l2649

[wesleyuk]

unbelievable good.

 

how to avoid white/blue patches?

[TinyGiant]

Thanks for the info and the pics

 

Please keep us up to date, its nice having someone with a similar sized project!

I'm still trying to find cheaper bulbs.. would like to have this whole fixture done for under $375

 

I'll keep everyone posted as to how this works out..

 

 

On a somewhat related note, whats your opinion on this for my refugium?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/220953396822?ssPag...984.m1423.l2649

 

 

email the luckdlz seller that i listed and see what the cheapest they can do is.

 

i bet if you are getting a ton of bulbs they will give you heavy discounts. most of these sellers are the manufacturers.. so they can discount a little more